Key words but what do they mean, how do you do it?

[Dave]

In my job before retirement I got to work with some of the best soil and grass experts in the PNW. I literally did thousands of soil tests. Through work I was sent to workshops in Washington, Oregon and BC. Learned a lot of interesting stuff most of which applied to the area was in. Then I retired and moved out of 60 inch of rain fall to the high desert with a 10 inch annual precipitation. But an awful lot of the basics still apply.
I have neighbors who GGG grand parents came here by covered wagon on the Oregon Trail. You might think that those people would be stuck in doing things the way it has always been done. But the fact that they are still here and still in business shows they are willing to learn and change. Now they along with everyone else is exposed enough snake oil salesman. This super duper product will cure what ails you and make this ranch a huge success. So they aren't jumping on every idea which comes along.
Two things jumped into my head that are facts and are making change that some are still resisting.
Tillage is the enemy of soil organic matter.
Nitrogen fertilizer will lower the soil pH.
Both proven facts so the question becomes how you go about combating these problems? What is the solution or solutions?

 

[anewcomer]

In my job before retirement I got to work with some of the best soil and grass experts in the PNW. I literally did thousands of soil tests. Through work I was sent to workshops in Washington, Oregon and BC. Learned a lot of interesting stuff most of which applied to the area was in. Then I retired and moved out of 60 inch of rain fall to the high desert with a 10 inch annual precipitation. But an awful lot of the basics still apply.
I have neighbors who GGG grand parents came here by covered wagon on the Oregon Trail. You might think that those people would be stuck in doing things the way it has always been done. But the fact that they are still here and still in business shows they are willing to learn and change. Now they along with everyone else is exposed enough snake oil salesman. This super duper product will cure what ails you and make this ranch a huge success. So they aren't jumping on every idea which comes along.
Two things jumped into my head that are facts and are making change that some are still resisting.
Tillage is the enemy of soil organic matter.
Nitrogen fertilizer will lower the soil pH.
Both proven facts so the question becomes how you go about combating these problems? What is the solution or solutions?

Dave, you've done a lot of great posts, but that one was the best! Your point about differences in environment and similarities in principles is probably the number one rule in grazing. One size doesn't fit all, but the idea is the same everywhere.

 

[ClinchValley86]

This is an excellent thread.

 

[Banjo]

In my job before retirement I got to work with some of the best soil and grass experts in the PNW. I literally did thousands of soil tests. Through work I was sent to workshops in Washington, Oregon and BC. Learned a lot of interesting stuff most of which applied to the area was in. Then I retired and moved out of 60 inch of rain fall to the high desert with a 10 inch annual precipitation. But an awful lot of the basics still apply.
I have neighbors who GGG grand parents came here by covered wagon on the Oregon Trail. You might think that those people would be stuck in doing things the way it has always been done. But the fact that they are still here and still in business shows they are willing to learn and change. Now they along with everyone else is exposed enough snake oil salesman. This super duper product will cure what ails you and make this ranch a huge success. So they aren't jumping on every idea which comes along.
Two things jumped into my head that are facts and are making change that some are still resisting.
Tillage is the enemy of soil organic matter.
Nitrogen fertilizer will lower the soil pH.
Both proven facts so the question becomes how you go about combating these problems? What is the solution or solutions?

You are correct on all points. Those early settlers came out west and homesteaded their land....the sodbusters or farmers would plow and plant corn in the same spot year after year and after 5 or 6 years the land would just peter out....and they would pull up stakes and move somewhere else.....so I've been told
You can plow up a sod once and grow a really good crop with little to no inputs, but then it should go back into grass for two years at least.
Commercial N will lower Ph and Lime will pull moisture out of the soil....to any significant damage? i don't know , but stick your hands down in a pile of lime and see how dry they get. its like it just sucks the moisture right out of them.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Yep, if we all farmed / ranched like they did 100 years ago starvation would be the leading cause of death.

I mainly meantthe dependency we have on chemicals and deep tillage, and the tendency to have monoculture. I just don't see how past practices and new practices cannot be blended together. I got a feeling lots is about to change by necessity. Lots of question marks for the next couple years. These global markets are unpredictable. Except for one thing, prices will continue to increase.

Also, if we'd stop exporting our stuff and importing their garbage, maybe the local markets could be sustained by local supply.

Look at the yields of Gabe brown. Almost chemical input free. Building organic matter and fast.

Lots of knowledge is near lost.

We need livestock back on crop land. Keeping something living in the soil year round. Good crop yields are still possible without chemicals.. As a nation and thre whole world, we have lot of soil repairing to do. Organic matter levels of the 1700s are all but gone.

Open mindedness is required though.

 

[Dave]

One of my close contacts from WSU extension, a Phd who worked mainly with grass came up with a great new idea. One which he had never seen before. While thinking of how to set up the experiments to prove it he was looking through an old ag text book with a 1910 copyright date. There in black and white was his idea and the data needed to understand how and why it worked. A lot of things that work have been forgotten.

 

[Rydero]

I mainly meantthe dependency we have on chemicals and deep tillage, and the tendency to have monoculture. I just don't see how past practices and new practices cannot be blended together. I got a feeling lots is about to change by necessity. Lots of question marks for the next couple years. These global markets are unpredictable. Except for one thing, prices will continue to increase.

Also, if we'd stop exporting our stuff and importing their garbage, maybe the local markets could be sustained by local supply.

Look at the yields of Gabe brown. Almost chemical input free. Building organic matter and fast.

Lots of knowledge is near lost.

We need livestock back on crop land. Keeping something living in the soil year round. Good crop yields are still possible without chemicals.. As a nation and thre whole world, we have lot of soil repairing to do. Organic matter levels of the 1700s are all but gone.

Open mindedness is required though.

I agree with blending practices. The old ways will get the old results (lower production) and the "modern" ways will continue to delete the soil and biodiversity while giving high yields and questionable financial returns.

It's easy sometimes to fall into one camp or another. Say for instance spraying to terminate a field you want to rejuvenate. Organic or regenerative people would say that glyphosate is bad for microbes and the soil health. So instead I can disc it. Tillage kills microbes too because I'm killing their food source. I'm losing organic matter too. In my case I've decided spraying once or twice to get the process of rejuvenation started is the lesser evil so I spray and zero till. Both practices disturb the microbes - I do what I think does less damage and it also happens to require far less effort and fuel.

The area I'm in is phosphorus deficient. I'd like to stop using bought chemical fertilizer. I've decided to try bring the phosphorus levels on my land up before I try getting away from the fertilizer. Why fight an uphill battle? It's a lot easier to stop depleting phos than it is to build it.

Unfortunately neutral information isn't as readily shared, it's usually someone with an agenda who pays to get the word out. There's definitely a middle road where you can blend things together.

 

[Rmc]

How cows are helping solve Utah Lake's phragmites problem

State wildlife biologists are again turning to a unique tool in their fight against the pesky plant creating issues across Utah Lake: cows.

www.ksl.com

 

[Rmc]

Carbon sequestration a positive aspect of beef cattle grazing grasslands - Oklahoma State University

STILLWATER, Okla. – Beef cattle grazing on grass pastures might not be the first thing people think of when discussing the subject of combatting greenhouse gas emissions, but it is an agricultural practice providing significant dividends to the effort.

www.dasnr.okstate.edu

Part of the issue is that we do a poor job of promoting the positive aspects of what we do .
So those who are so far from agriculture only hear one side of the story
We need to do a better job of promoting what we do

 

[shaz]

Carbon sequestration a positive aspect of beef cattle grazing grasslands - Oklahoma State University

STILLWATER, Okla. – Beef cattle grazing on grass pastures might not be the first thing people think of when discussing the subject of combatting greenhouse gas emissions, but it is an agricultural practice providing significant dividends to the effort.

www.dasnr.okstate.edu

Part of the issue is that we do a poor job of promoting the positive aspects of what we do .
So those who are so far from agriculture only hear one side of the story
We need to do a better job of promoting what we do

Isn't that the truth. We never get to punch back cause we're such a minority.

Given that regenerative agriculture is going to be the next big thing, wouldn't that be a net positive for ruminant production on grass? These organic farms need fertility from somewhere.

If you look at movies like Kiss the Ground cows/livestock are pretty much the only thing that really works.

 

[wbvs58]

I agree with blending practices. The old ways will get the old results (lower production) and the "modern" ways will continue to delete the soil and biodiversity while giving high yields and questionable financial returns.

It's easy sometimes to fall into one camp or another. Say for instance spraying to terminate a field you want to rejuvenate. Organic or regenerative people would say that glyphosate is bad for microbes and the soil health. So instead I can disc it. Tillage kills microbes too because I'm killing their food source. I'm losing organic matter too. In my case I've decided spraying once or twice to get the process of rejuvenation started is the lesser evil so I spray and zero till. Both practices disturb the microbes - I do what I think does less damage and it also happens to require far less effort and fuel.

The area I'm in is phosphorus deficient. I'd like to stop using bought chemical fertilizer. I've decided to try bring the phosphorus levels on my land up before I try getting away from the fertilizer. Why fight an uphill battle? It's a lot easier to stop depleting phos than it is to build it.

Unfortunately neutral information isn't as readily shared, it's usually someone with an agenda who pays to get the word out. There's definitely a middle road where you can blend things together.

A lot of information in our rural newspapers is paid editorial from people wanting to sell something using testimonials rather than science to promote their product. Substitutes for chemical fertilisers being a popular one.

Ken

 

[ClinchValley86]

I agree with blending practices. The old ways will get the old results (lower production) and the "modern" ways will continue to delete the soil and biodiversity while giving high yields and questionable financial returns.

It's easy sometimes to fall into one camp or another. Say for instance spraying to terminate a field you want to rejuvenate. Organic or regenerative people would say that glyphosate is bad for microbes and the soil health. So instead I can disc it. Tillage kills microbes too because I'm killing their food source. I'm losing organic matter too. In my case I've decided spraying once or twice to get the process of rejuvenation started is the lesser evil so I spray and zero till. Both practices disturb the microbes - I do what I think does less damage and it also happens to require far less effort and fuel.

The area I'm in is phosphorus deficient. I'd like to stop using bought chemical fertilizer. I've decided to try bring the phosphorus levels on my land up before I try getting away from the fertilizer. Why fight an uphill battle? It's a lot easier to stop depleting phos than it is to build it.

Unfortunately neutral information isn't as readily shared, it's usually someone with an agenda who pays to get the word out. There's definitely a middle road where you can blend things together.

Exact same approach here. Gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[anewcomer]

Ryder, you make some excellent points! Grass and clover seed can be treaded in using animal impact and good timing. As I mentioned to you before, increasing your paddock numbers will help you in this. You may be able to eliminate tillage in this way. Before chemical fertilizer in the 40's-50's, manure was the main soil amendment. Do you have access to poultry litter? If you get your soil right initially, cow-calf will require very little brought in fertilizer.