Kentucky - I know it is a right to farm state - BUT ........

[FrmrMmbr2314]

Hi, we live in Western Kentucky on about a 100 acres farm. (About 50% is woods so we are talking about maybe 50 acres grassland). There are two homes situated on the property and there is a main driveway onto the property continuing along with a road that leads to the back of the property where a family cemetery is located. On ONE side of the driveway is all open grass land I would say about 20 or 30 acres? A family member placed cows over there a few years ago (about 20 cows). Initially he only took up the small end section by permission of other family members. My immediate family was not happy about this because there were suddenly gates / fences put up that disallowed the young ones the same pleasures we all had growing up of riding around the entirety of the farm on 4 wheelers or golf carts. He did NOT stop at that little corner end section. He moved the fencing all the way up to the driveway the following year and basically cut the open farm land "in half." He STILL did not stop there. He THEN placed fencing and gating all over the back (behind the homes) property and blocked / gated / fenced off our entrance into our woods.

NOW he is trying to claim he wants to put the cattle in front of our home (which would be on the OTHER side of the driveway) and there is only about 1 or maybe 2 acres right there. (Hardly big enough for cattle). He would be doing this entirely to be a jerk (which he is). If he does that - he would be putting gating and fencing all across the main driveway which we are against. (Not to mention against having cattle in our FRONT YARD when our homes have been situated like this for over 15 years).

I'm hopeful I have some legal grounds to stand on - but again with a "right to farm" state - I may run into issues. But to me it would seem not healthy at all to put 20 cows on a 1 - 2 acre area - and I lean on the part of the statute that says it must be "10 continguous acres" - or that "abut" or "touch" and in this case THEY DO NOT - (there is a driveway and road separating any touching of the other areas where the cattle are currently).

Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Who actually owns the land?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I feel it has nothing to do with "right to farm" it has to do with who's name is on the deed to the land...?

In Michigan at least land can "touch or abut" across a road and be considered contiguous...

 

[M.Magis]

Yep, has nothing to do with "right to farm" or cows per acre. You have no legal avenue there. I also don't think you understand his plan or the law, and I'm sure you don't care either.
Who owns the land? Its a family issue that should be worked out through the family.

 

[Ky hills]

from what I understand, it's an ownership rather than right to farm issue.
I obviously don't know the particulars, but it sounds like there is a right of way to the house. If that is the case we have a similar situation with a right of way that runs through our property to get to another property.
As a cattle owner, the right of way has been a mess for us. Obviously nobody wants to open a gate or two so the other party ( different people at different times )have wanted us to allow them to put in cattle guards. Those did not work well as they probably were not constructed right.
I've finally at my expense fenced down both sides of the right of way to keep the peace. There's no real good solution to a situation like that.
We as landowners have the right to keep gates across a right of way.

 

[FrmrMmbr2314]

Who actually owns the land?

My mother (my father passed), my aunt (my uncle passed) and another uncle. Originally it was owned by my father and his brothers undivided interest but 16 years ago we had the land divided into separate tracts for each brother (spouse) ….

This person causing all the trouble is my aunts son - he doesn't own the property but his mother and my uncle allow him to do what he wants. He lives around the corner from the farm.

 

[504RP]

I feel it has nothing to do with "right to farm" it has to do with who's name is on the deed to the land...?

In Michigan at least land can "touch or abut" across a road and be considered contiguous...

I noticed wherever you post M Magis post right behind you ? Are you two a couple ?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@RexandRoxKY, welcome to Cattle Today! Would you kindly fill out your profile so it shows your location there? Although you do spell that out in your thread you have started.

What you have would appear to be a legal matter. However, it doesn't sound like you have standing for an argument. The fact that the land has been divided up into separate tracts with different ownerships has effectively removed any interest you have in that piece of property. Without an interest in the property, you might not like what is taking place on it, but you have no control over it. At the office I work at, we had an individual that would come into the office and apply for conservation practices on a piece of land that they did not own or have a lease on, so no control what so ever. We have to take the application if someone fills it out. However, the 2nd 03 third question on the application asks if the applicant has control of the land. They did not. With the answer to that question, the applicant does not qualify for any program on the piece of land they are applying for.

 

[Lucky]

Sounds like your mother owns roughly 33 acres that you live on? We bought 60 acres next to us a few years back that had been in the same family for over 100 years. The three remining owners couldn't agree on what should be done with the property so it was sold. A fence being torn down and house plans is what caused the issue. Sounds like you have the right to block him from 33 acres with your mothers permission though.

 

[FrmrMmbr2314]

@RexandRoxKY, welcome to Cattle Today! Would you kindly fill out your profile so it shows your location there? Although you do spell that out in your thread you have started.

What you have would appear to be a legal matter. However, it doesn't sound like you have standing for an argument. The fact that the land has been divided up into separate tracts with different ownerships has effectively removed any interest you have in that piece of property. Without an interest in the property, you might not like what is taking place on it, but you have no control over it. At the office I work at, we had an individual that would come into the office and apply for conservation practices on a piece of land that they did not own or have a lease on, so no control what so ever. We have to take the application if someone fills it out. However, the 2nd 03 third question on the application asks if the applicant has control of the land. They did not. With the answer to that question, the applicant does not qualify for any program on the piece of land they are applying for.

Thank you - but since his mother owns that particular parcel isn't it ok she gave him permission? It's just pitiful in my opinion - destroying land that has been in the family the same way for 30 years because he wants to turn it into a "cattle ranch" - he should just buy his own property elsewhere is my opinion.

 

[FrmrMmbr2314]

Sounds like your mother owns roughly 33 acres that you live on? We bought 60 acres next to us a few years back that had been in the same family for over 100 years. The three remining owners couldn't agree on what should be done with the property so it was sold. A fence being torn down and house plans is what caused the issue. Sounds like you have the right to block him from 33 acres with your mothers permission though.

Oh he knows he's blocked from putting anything on our portion. But he did anyway and we have to use the legal system now to have him stopped. But again - even though there is no practical use of the land for cattle in front of our home he'll put them there because he's pretty much an a-hole on all counts and in all senses of that word. Believe me when I tell you that …..

 

[StrojanHerefords]

You do realize that you have gone to a website full of people who are pro cattle?
Not knowing the situation, it sounds like while you have been joyriding motorbikes, your cousin has taken the wherewithal to buy cows and the initiative to improve the property with fences. My prediction is that if you go the legal route the end result will be that the whole family will lose the land.

 

[wbvs58]

How do you maintain the property without the assistance of grazing animals keeping the vegetation under control?

Ken

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Thank you - but since his mother owns that particular parcel isn't it ok she gave him permission? It's just pitiful in my opinion - destroying land that has been in the family the same way for 30 years because he wants to turn it into a "cattle ranch" - he should just buy his own property elsewhere is my opinion.

The land is not "destroyed" by "turning it into" a cattle ranch. Placing a cattle ranch on the land can be very healthy and productive, when done properly. There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. The same can be said about 4 wheelers and golf carts. Land that has been mismanaged and is littered with "resource concerns" can be improved or healed by addressing those resource concerns with corrective action and proper management. I don't know the operation the family member is trying to create, so I have almost no idea of what resource concerns are being created. Based on what you have said so far, I can see two potential resource concerns. The first being the number of cows for the 20-30 acres you initially mentioned, and the second being fencing off a portion of the woods and putting them there.

Management and proper utilization of the pasture resources is my specialty. It would appear that you are disgruntled about several different things here, and possibly mor than what you have listed, or maybe just overall mad? Questions that I have so far include, Are you mad about the fences and access only? Are you mad about permitted use of livestock on land you cannot control? Are you mad about encroachment and trespass use of the land with cattle that the family member does not have permission to put the cattle on? Are you mad about mismanagement of the livestock on the land base? I'm not there and do not have a dog in the fight. I may be sad if the land is not being managed in a way that it is most productive for its intended use, but I'm not the land owner. It may be a good idea to focus your points of contention and present them separately rather than present them together all at once.

Opinion doesn't count for much of anything when you do not have any ownership.

 

[cowman82]

if he has rights to the property you can't really do much other than being a big nuisance yourself.

 

[Ky hills]

You do realize that you have gone to a website full of people who are pro cattle?
Not knowing the situation, it sounds like while you have been joyriding motorbikes, your cousin has taken the wherewithal to buy cows and the initiative to improve the property with fences. My prediction is that if you go the legal route the end result will be that the whole family will lose the land.

That was my thought too. Who has been mowing those acres. If they aren't mowed off they will grow up in cedars, locusts, those awful bush honeysuckles, multiflora roses etc, and eventually have to mowed with a bulldozer. That's what we contend with in east KY.
Why keep something mowed of all the time with a lawn mower, when it could be grazed by cattle and be of benefit, then it would only need to be mowed off a couple times of year instead of every week or so.
Could be worse, the could be putting in a hog lot.
We've had some neighbors over the years that I've really wanted to gift them a hog lot next to their property.

 

[kenny thomas]

That was my thought too. Who has been mowing those acres. If they aren't mowed off they will grow up in cedars, locusts, those awful bush honeysuckles, multiflora roses etc, and eventually have to mowed with a bulldozer. That's what we contend with in east KY.
Why keep something mowed of all the time with a lawn mower, when it could be grazed by cattle and be of benefit, then it would only need to be mowed off a couple times of year instead of every week or so.
Could be worse, the could be putting in a hog lot.
We've had some neighbors over the years that I've really wanted to gift them a hog lot next to their property.

I tried to buy a small farm a few years ago from a local bank. Told thrm i was going to put a.hog lot as close to the neighbor as i could. They wouldn't sell to me but sold to the neighbor. Told.me thry knew i would end up in trouble over it. The neighbor died a year later so it all worked out.

 

[moses388]

Thank you for posting. I like provoking posts like this. I hope both sides are able to reach a middle ground.

This person causing all the trouble is my aunts son - he doesn't own the property but his mother and my uncle allow him to do what he wants.

How does Mother, Aunt and Uncle feel about cattle circling their homes?

My immediate family was not happy about this because there were suddenly gates / fences put up that disallowed the young ones the same pleasures we all had growing up of riding around the entirety of the farm on 4 wheelers or golf carts.

Do the gates open and close? Are you not able to open a gate, drive thru, close the gate and continue driving?

 

[Logan52]

In 1986 I bought an adjoining 40 acres that had a right of way through the middle of it that served one house and farm. They had access to the state highway but the right of way was easier to use. For years gates had stood at the entrance and exit of the right of way. Also, like Ky Hills, there were home made and not very effective cattle guards in place. The place had been owned by an elderly neighbor who hardly used it.
Well, when I began to sort of fix things up, the users of the right of way wanted me to help purchase gravel for what in effect was their driveway. I thought they were way out of line and told them I had the right to close the gates (the reason they were there) if I wanted. To keep peace I relented but it has been a headache to this day. They even ran a waterline along the right of way to save money from coming in from the other direction. Again, I just wanted to be a good neighbor but it has cost me a lot in property values and aggravation.
They go to lawyers and come back saying they can do whatever they want, it is theirs, even though the legal right of way document clearly states they only have the right to "pass over" a ten foot wide stretch of my property.
I eventually just sold the portion of the property that lay away from me on the far side of the right of way. I use a barn on my side and have an unfenced hay field there also. I had it surveyed to include the road and designated it as an access road if my heirs ever want to develop it.
I only fenced one section along the road due to the expense and never ran a head of stock on the far section. I do sometimes graze the hayfield by putting up an electric wire.

 

[coachg]

Don't know all the particulars but if you or your mom have a share I'd put my foot down and say no to him fencing off your yard or your drive . I'm a cattlemen and I admire his hustle to fence more land but I think he's pushing his rights .