Just curious, the other end of semen

Help Support CattleToday:

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
6
Location
NW Oregon
I just bought some semen and was thinking about the business end. How does this usually work?

Someone sell shares of a bull, lets say A, B and C all own a equal share of a bull. Each share holder has a good supply to sell in their own personal tank, and lets say Reed has a supply to sell for them.

1. I buy 20 straws from B at a show to save myself the shipping, who gets the money?

2. I buy 20 straws from Reed, who gets the money?

Thanks,
Alan
 
All the money goes into one checking account to be disbursed among the owners at an agreed upon time.

Same with signing certificates.
 
MikeC":1xmb8t3k said:
All the money goes into one checking account to be disbursed among the owners at an agreed upon time.

Same with signing certificates.

Thanks, that make sense. Is each owner given so much semen and responsible for inventory on the number of straws they have? If I give $500 cash to owner B at their ranch for 20 straws, do they have to account for the 20 straws to the other owners, or is the honor system.

Alan
 
Alan":370c9tyv said:
MikeC":370c9tyv said:
All the money goes into one checking account to be disbursed among the owners at an agreed upon time.

Same with signing certificates.

Thanks, that make sense. Is each owner given so much semen and responsible for inventory on the number of straws they have? If I give $500 cash to owner B at their ranch for 20 straws, do they have to account for the 20 straws to the other owners, or is the honor system.

Alan

However the inventory is handled would be up to the "owners".

You can bet they either:

1-Trust each other, or

2-Have the details worked out up front.
 
MikeC":5ypscttd said:
All the money goes into one checking account to be disbursed among the owners at an agreed upon time.

Same with signing certificates.
Mike , I've had a few partnerships and I've never been fortunate enough to have that kind of deal among the partners. The only way I've seen it work is a third party book keeper. Unless you have someone responsible for the semen (every straw) who is not a partner ideally, it's hard to track. I've had several partners go collect bulls ,while they have posession , for their personal use . This personal use semen always finds a home for some other persons use and the other partners didn't get paid. Best deals I know of are deals where someone like Reed handles the books for 20%, doesn't issue a cert unless someone has purchased semen . They also disperse checks to the partners after advertising expenses (or whatever else comes off the top).
 
If the cost of the bull (or ownership) has already been evenly split, and the cost of collection has been evenly split, then all that remains is to split the semen. Each owner can take 1/4/, 1/3, or 1/2 (however the ownership is divided) of the semen and do with it what they will. Or they can all take an equal given amount for personal use or private treaty sell, and then put a batch of semen aside to be managed by someone who will get paid a percentage to market it, and make sure the profit is divided evenly. As far as upkeep of the bull or storage of the semen....that is usually between the breeders.
 
With semen that the owners have in their tanks and then sell some of it we have to use the Honor System. It is easy enough to only sign certificates for people that has purchased semen from the partners, but if I sell 50 straws to an individual with 20 cows and he uses it all on those same 20 cows before they are all settled, when the calves are ready to register he gets 20 signed certs. Someone else buys 50 straw for 20 cows and settles them using only 25 straws, that's where the Honor System comes in. He could report selling any # between 20 and 50. No one checks our inventory. If there were anyone checking inventory the owner of the semen could always say that he bred his own cows with the semen not accounted for.
 
How the semen on our co-owned bulls goes as follows. We collect the bull and split the semen cost 1/2. The semen goes into a sales pool and all semen sells out of this acct. This acct also pays for the advertising cost for the bull. The semen we get to use on cows is our own to use and we pay just the collection cost to the sales pool for the semen. This keeps it easy and no room for any monkey business. What is left after paying the associated cost with collection, advertising and any other fees is distributed quarterly to the respective owners.
 
Does the company doing the collection have to (upon request) give all owners information on the # of times a bull was collected & the total # of straws collected? As stated earlier a partner could take a bull & have him collected while in his possession & not tell the other partners.
 
JDI":1dnsjegc said:
Does the company doing the collection have to (upon request) give all owners information on the # of times a bull was collected & the total # of straws collected? As stated earlier a partner could take a bull & have him collected while in his possession & not tell the other partners.

Why is everyone hell bent on proving the partners as crooks?

Yes, an owner could secretly collect him.

There is a such thing as "honor" even today. Know who you are partnering with and don't be worried about the boogeyman.

No manner of paperwork or agreements can stop a crook, if he so chooses to be.
 
Mike,
The guy in question told me he pulled 350 straws. He told another guy ( friend of mine) he had pulled over 700 on the bull. I bought 3/4 semen rights on the bull & full possession. When he advertises the bull he quotes me as 50 % on both. When I called & questioned him on it he told me I had the bull don't worry about it & hung up on me. To this day he will not talk to me at a show or acknowlege my presence unless I wall directly to him & force him to. I have never been charged collection fees or advertisment cost on the bull so I just have elected not to push it. He is a past breed state president & is on state board of directors. Not accusing him of being crooked but I don't like being snubbed either. When the bull quits breeding for me I will go check on amount of semen collected & ask for sale recipts of the semen sold.
 
Well this is the answers I was hoping for, as in any business, you have to pick your partners carefully and do some research. Looks like there is lots of room for anyone who wants to be a little crooked, but what are you really out? A little semen, but you gain the knowledge of who your dealing with. It's been said many time on these boards that your level of honesty travels fast in the cattle industry and I sure think that's true.

I have been offered shares of a couple of bulls in the past, I'm just the type who don't like partners.

What brought this question to mind is saving on shipping and a bull I like and would like to put some of his semen in my tank. He is owned by three outfits that live in three different states. When I'm at shows and events I usually see at least 2 of the 3 and most times all 3. 1 owner is close and an easy drive, 2 others are too far away. 1 owner, my gut says look out, one owner I like and can see as a friend, 1 owner is nice but I don't know them that well. At shows all three usually have their semen tank. So if I bought from ones tank will the other two know that even if they are equal shares, only one is taking home money from their bull? Thus possibly irratting 2, a hypthecal reason I'm resistant to partners.

Alan
 
MikeC":3fqbftlp said:
Why is everyone be nice bent on proving the partners as crooks?

Yes, an owner could secretly collect him.

There is a such thing as "honor" even today. Know who you are partnering with and don't be worried about the boogeyman.

No manner of paperwork or agreements can stop a crook, if he so chooses to be.

:nod:
 
Some partnerships are set up that each partner gets X number of units of semen each year to do with as he pleases - use or sell, keeping the income.
Bottom line, TRUST - know who you are dealing with.
 
if you are worried about more straws being sold, check the registrations for that bull for a certain year. If 100 straws was sold and 200 calves were registered, there is a problem. Now you have to look at AI calves only. 3 straws of semen can make 3-20 ET calves. But check the AI calves registered yearly and you can tell. If it is being sold to commercial breeders, that is another matter.
 
most times if you own 1/2 of the bull, you get his services for 1/2 of the year. His feed, collection, and advertising come out the semen money. If you decide to collect and sell discuss and agree how many straws each owner may collect and how many natural services a bull is allowed in your 6 months. Nothing makes you angry like getting your $20k bull back from your partner who abused him by collecting too often or worked him on too many cows. Also set your open market semen price, and decide on how many straws to sell and how many each keep, as well as sell them through one company to keep inventory accurate
 

Latest posts

Top