Just a few thoughts on herd building

[wbvs58]

Nice looking bunch of young ladies, there, Ken. How old are these? You had mentioned you keep 40 head in your herd...how many acres do you have?

Thanks Warren. I have around 1000acres but I am at about my limit for stocking rate. You can see the timbered country in the background which is around 600 acres and is what they are wintered on after weaning the calves. My open country is more like fairways with heavily treed rocky areas dividing it up. It is sandy granite soil so does not have much ticker to it when things get dry so it is handy having the bush country to put them in until we get a bit of rain again and the open country get a go on again. Overall the Angus cattle do well here and my weaning weights are 2nd to none with good fertility.

Ken

 

[farmerjan]

I have always put the heat detector strips about where you do... just maybe a little bit more forward. Used to use the older style that had the liquid in them.. directly on the backbone/tailhead... throwback to the dairy days...

 

[wbvs58]

DO YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE FOR CATTLE?

I don't. I have a lot of problems looking at a group and picking out the best. Maybe my double vision doesn't help, I tend to just see a jumble of cows. I have to form an opinion over time like when walking through the cattle a calf may catch my eye. When I sort out a group like these heifers and see them on a regular basis I start to form an opinion of them especially when they are all in a row at a feed trough and I walk around them you get to see them side by side to compare their thickness, where the muscle is and height. Driving up to them you get to compare the thickness from the front, their shoulder, length feet etc
To me it is more about comparing rather than looking at them individually.
How do you do it.

Ken

 

[farmerjan]

There is usually a couple that catch your eye right off... nice head, good disposition, nice length... but mostly I do comparison like you do...
Sometimes one will get a "chance" if out of a good family or something.

 

[TCRanch]

Comparison, disposition, lineage. I have one heifer I'd love to retain this year because she's gorgeous, great composition and lineage, she'd probably raise awesome calves. But she's high strung! Nope. Next! And yes, comparison matters. Another heifer looks top notch by herself but downright short & squatty next to others. Another pass.

And then there's emotion. Which probably shouldn't be a factor, but it is - for me. One of my absolute favorite cows got struck by lightning this year. Literally went through her udder and blew out her back end; never seen anything like it. She was only 5 and her orphaned calf is a heifer. Keeping that heifer, just because. BTW, all contingent on pelvic measurements but that's not until February.

 

[GoWyo]

I sent a big, beautiful heifer to the sale barn at the beginning of October because she was too big. Weaned off at 690 lbs. when the bulk of the replacements were around 600-630 lbs. Was hard to do, but she did not fit the rest of the class and I was afraid she will end up being a 1700 lb. cow, which I don't need.

 

[farmerjan]

With so many of the cattle getting "down-sized" with all the easy calving bulls... too big is not something I would cull for now... but @GoWyo I get that you are trying to keep them more uniform in your herd. I don't have a problem with a big cow if she is an "easy keeper" and raises a good big calf... now a big cow that eats you out of house and home to maintain is a whole "nuther story"...

 

[GoWyo]

With so many of the cattle getting "down-sized" with all the easy calving bulls... too big is not something I would cull for now... but @GoWyo I get that you are trying to keep them more uniform in your herd. I don't have a problem with a big cow if she is an "easy keeper" and raises a good big calf... now a big cow that eats you out of house and home to maintain is a whole "nuther story"...

We have cows ranging from 1300-1600+ in BCS 6 with the bulk of them in the 1400-1500 lb range. The couple of 1600+ lb cows are a little taller than average, but are also thick and deep and productive. I don't know how much they eat compared to the others. They get the same pasture and same hay as all the rest and maintain good rig, so will be here til they fail or age out. I am not using much for calving ease bulls other than on the heifers. We are really focused on making them stouter, solid weaning weights, and they need to be able to go to elevations over 6500 feet, so PAP EPD and actual testing is another part of the puzzle.

 

[gcreekrch]

DO YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE FOR CATTLE?

I don't. I have a lot of problems looking at a group and picking out the best. Maybe my double vision doesn't help, I tend to just see a jumble of cows. I have to form an opinion over time like when walking through the cattle a calf may catch my eye. When I sort out a group like these heifers and see them on a regular basis I start to form an opinion of them especially when they are all in a row at a feed trough and I walk around them you get to see them side by side to compare their thickness, where the muscle is and height. Driving up to them you get to compare the thickness from the front, their shoulder, length feet etc
To me it is more about comparing rather than looking at them individually.
How do you do it.

Ken

You wouldn't bs a bit now would you?

Cattle like yours don't get produced blindly.

 

[wbvs58]

You wouldn't bs a bit now would you?

Cattle like yours don't get produced blindly.

Thanks Dave but seriously I've got to live with them for a bit before I start to get a feel for them.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am lucky, my nephew Phil has a GREAT eye. Whether they are in groups or single. He sees all the parts and pieces - and the whole package. And he REMEMBERS!!! I am having a hard time doing that! I've always been able to pick what I like - but, I can't pick the parts & pieces and describe what I see. I just know "the look" I like.

 

[wbvs58]

I am lucky, my nephew Phil has a GREAT eye. Whether they are in groups or single. He sees all the parts and pieces - and the whole package. And he REMEMBERS!!! I am having a hard time doing that! I've always been able to pick what I like - but, I can't pick the parts & pieces and describe what I see. I just know "the look" I like.

That's interesting Jeanne. From some of your comments of photos on here I would have thought you would have a fairly critical eye straight up, sounds like you are more like me and as I have said living with them for a bit helps a lot.

Ken

 

[DCortes]

I'm usually very happy with the calves from my own bulls, I really like the calves from my bull I used last year and have used him again this year and no I probably don't see much difference between mine and the AI sires. I have gone away from selling bulls as I don't like the marketing and I got into this to produce females for myself in the first place. I do have people chasing my surplus heifers each year.
When I started my herd I did acquire a short lived problem with BVD and once that was sorted I could not see the point of bringing in cattle from unknown sources. I did bring in my registered cows from the one known and trusted breeder over several years but have not introduced any more for about 10 years and I see no need to other than in the nitrogen tank.
I do feel what I do spreads the risk of buying a bull that does not live up to expectations or goes bad on you. I think this is one of the problems that @Ky hills has had with his herd. Also this is a bit of a game for me that I enjoy and trying different bulls is a lot of fun and hopefully I see the results over the weigh bridge and eye candy in the paddock.

Ken

Ken, great information here. If you had to start all over again knowing what you know now, what would you do different?

 

[wbvs58]

Ken, great information here. If you had to start all over again knowing what you know now, what would you do different?

Probably nothing, I have enjoyed doing what I do and continue to. I have always enjoyed trying to improve on performance from racing pigeons as a kid to dabbling in training race horses briefly and now cattle so I will continue to try to improve. My emphasis now is on fertility trying to cut the calving down to the month of July and to incorporate more heifers into the herd by my own bulls and maybe reducing the use of AI to just half the herd.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That's interesting Jeanne. From some of your comments of photos on here I would have thought you would have a fairly critical eye straight up, sounds like you are more like me and as I have said living with them for a bit helps a lot.

Ken

Like I said, I "know" what I like. Just have a hard time pinpointing "pieces" like Phil can do. I am pretty "broad" in most of my critique. LOL