Just a few questions about club calves.....

[aussie_cowgirl]

We don't really have anything like this in Australia so I'm a little interested. They might be dumb questions but that's ok, curiosity has made me post.

1. Why are black animals so popular? When I was showing steers I always tried to find (among a nice steer) one that stood out a little, even if it was a Brahman X or had a white face or something. When you have a ring of just black, grey and red cattle I have found it can have the edge.

2. I see these club calf bulls and they never put an age on the pictures. And I never see updates so are these specially bred bulls that aren't so masculine or just really young photos? (Ok so that was the dumbest question)

3. Club calves obviously aren't killed and judged at their first show because they do an entire circuit so what happens to them at the end of season?

 

[Keren]

From what I understand:

1. Not all club calves are black, there are quite a few flashy coloured ones around. but I guess black hided animals dominate, there are just more of them around, so naturally they will have the highest numbers in the show ring (same here - look at sydney royal and the number of black cattle there)

2. Those photos of the AI clubbie bulls are when they are young - I guess people want to see what the animal looked like at the same age that their steer will be shown (did I word that right?). No good having a late maturing bull that only looks good at 2yrs old if your steer will be shown around 12mths. You need the bull to look good at 12 mths. But also, the structure on the bulls and all the feed that goes down their necks, I think a lot of them dont look any good as mature bulls, they are not bred for longevity so they break down.

3. At the end of their circuit they end up at a terminal show, just like ours. But I think less emphasis is placed on the hooks judging, compared with the hoof. Ours is the other way around.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Thanks Keren,
I just see a lot of people only preferring black cattle. It's strange. But the age-photo thing makes sense. It's just amazing that it's so big over there you know. I mean our little Perth Royal can be busy sometimes but not like that. And I think Charolais and Murray Greys dominate over here

Thanks again

 

[grand chaser09]

We don't really have anything like this in Australia so I'm a little interested. They might be dumb questions but that's ok, curiosity has made me post.

1. Why are black animals so popular? When I was showing steers I always tried to find (among a nice steer) one that stood out a little, even if it was a Brahman X or had a white face or something. When you have a ring of just black, grey and red cattle I have found it can have the edge.
black is so popular because it is alot easier to hide flaws or build the legs with black and white paint than trying to mix and match on a red or smokey colored one.

2. I see these club calf bulls and they never put an age on the pictures. And I never see updates so are these specially bred bulls that aren't so masculine or just really young photos? (Ok so that was the dumbest question)
they take all of the pics of the bulls young. so you can see what your calf may come out looking like.

3. Club calves obviously aren't killed and judged at their first show because they do an entire circuit so what happens to them at the end of season?

the way it works for me is... there are small jackpot shows around that i take mine to so they get experiance and win some money. but my steers all go to a terminal fair at the end of the year.

if you've got anymore questions pm me!! i'll be glad to give you answers!

 

[iowahawkeyes]

We don't really have anything like this in Australia so I'm a little interested. They might be dumb questions but that's ok, curiosity has made me post.

1. Why are black animals so popular? When I was showing steers I always tried to find (among a nice steer) one that stood out a little, even if it was a Brahman X or had a white face or something. When you have a ring of just black, grey and red cattle I have found it can have the edge.
Most club calf animals are a crossbred out of Maine or Chi breeding and most of those cows and bulls are black, therefore the calves will be black. In the last few years the Char cross or smoky/butterscotch is getting more popular. A good Simm/maine baldie is popular too. Personally I like an off colored calf. They stand out in the ring.

2. I see these club calf bulls and they never put an age on the pictures. And I never see updates so are these specially bred bulls that aren't so masculine or just really young photos? (Ok so that was the dumbest question)
Not really a dumb question. Most pics are taken before they are even 1 year old. Most are taken in January so the pics will be ready for the spring catalogs. I don't agree with aussiegirl's statement. The bulls are so fitted and the pics are so photoshopped that you really can't tell what you will get. You really need to see the bulls in person to judge for yourself.

3. Club calves obviously aren't killed and judged at their first show because they do an entire circuit so what happens to them at the end of season?

Depends on the person. Some of the big shows are terminal for the winners or top few. Otherwise it's sale barn or locker...

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

In Texas the trend has been going towards chars and away from blacks.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

From what I understand:

1. Not all club calves are black, there are quite a few flashy coloured ones around. but I guess black hided animals dominate, there are just more of them around, so naturally they will have the highest numbers in the show ring (same here - look at sydney royal and the number of black cattle there)

2. Those photos of the AI clubbie bulls are when they are young - I guess people want to see what the animal looked like at the same age that their steer will be shown (did I word that right?). No good having a late maturing bull that only looks good at 2yrs old if your steer will be shown around 12mths. You need the bull to look good at 12 mths. But also, the structure on the bulls and all the feed that goes down their necks, I think a lot of them dont look any good as mature bulls, they are not bred for longevity so they break down.

3. At the end of their circuit they end up at a terminal show, just like ours. But I think less emphasis is placed on the hooks judging, compared with the hoof. Ours is the other way around.

Right. :nod: Though I don't think the black trend started in the show ring as grand chaser09. It's part of the whole black/angus craze. everyone wants black cattle hence more black simms, black herfs, gelbs, etc. I think it just ran over into the ring because there are so many black animals in production.

 

[Jovid]

In Texas the trend has been going towards chars and away from blacks.

The grand and reserve steers at the NAILE last year were both red.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

In Texas the trend has been going towards chars and away from blacks.

The grand and reserve steers at the NAILE last year were both red.

Well I was wondering when the red trend was going to hit.

 

[Australian]

is a bull that is said to produce club type calves. Does he produce earlier maturing cattle?
Colin

 

[VCC]

Your top Club Calf bulls are usually Bulls that produce a calf that at 500 pounds looks mature, has a big square hip, smooth shoulder, a huge top, freaky necked, and small headed.
The draw back to most these bulls are their birth weights, most of your top Club Calf bulls are three way crosses, bred to a main-angus or Simi-angus cow, the birth weight can range from 65 pounds to 150 pounds out of the same bull cow cross. When breeding club calves you are sometimes trying to get a square peg through a round hole.
The other area of concern is the fact that a high percentage of your top bulls are either TH or PHA carriers, or carry both defects. So a breeder really needs to know the status of his cows when it comes time to breed
Go to Showsteers.com and look at the upcoming sales page and you will see some stout little calves, These calves are bred for looks, not growth weight, ease of calving, or anything thing else that a commercial cattle man would be looking for. You could compare it to dogs and horses, show dogs and show horses are usually allot different that working dogs and working horses, some can play on both sides others would not stand a chance.

Bottom line is when you get the right combo and everything works out, these calves are really pretty, and that's what it is all about.

 

[Jovid]

is a bull that is said to produce club type calves. Does he produce earlier maturing cattle?
Colin

Probably just the opposite. The club calves today weigh between 1,250 - 1,400 lbs and are between 16 - 18 months old. I wouldn't consider that to be early maturing since most of the club calves get fed full feed grain for at least 12 months.

The actual cattle producers would go broke trying get a calf to slaughter weight at 18 months.

Actually the kids ( mostly parents ) that buy the club calves lose lots of money. Based on the price they pay for the calf plus the cost of the feed and the amount of feed it takes they are in the hole.

 

[iowahawkeyes]

is a bull that is said to produce club type calves. Does he produce earlier maturing cattle?
Colin

Probably just the opposite. The club calves today weigh between 1,250 - 1,400 lbs and are between 16 - 18 months old. I wouldn't consider that to be early maturing since most of the club calves get fed full feed grain for at least 12 months.

The actual cattle producers would go broke trying get a calf to slaughter weight at 18 months.

Actually the kids ( mostly parents ) that buy the club calves lose lots of money. Based on the price they pay for the calf plus the cost of the feed and the amount of feed it takes they are in the hole.

IT"S A HOBBY!

 

[VCC]

I was referring that they have a full gutted almost finished look to them from 500 pounds, not that they are finished, but with the thickness and hair they have a different look that a commercial feeder steer.

The rest of your statement just proves that it is a different world than commercial.
There are beef programs that deal with showing commercial cattle, the calves are usually from district or county the fair is in, there are weigh-ins to make sure they meet a minimum daily gain and are shown against each other at the end. These are not club calves; this would be a true market class, probably how the intention of a market class started, but people be people some one went to the next state and found a better steer and bam it is what it is know.

Your point about finishing out at 18 to 20 months has more to do with the way they are manipulated to hit a point or weight on a given day, Let's say a steer is shown at jackpots shows for 6 months and there is a show every other week.
Calf gets his food and water held back before weigh-in, hauled all over the country, put in a cooler box, at 50F for 90 to 120 days. If the calf hits his optimum weight at 14 months he is fed filler and top dress to hold his weight and keep him fresh looking for 2 to 4 months, and they still weight close to 1500 pounds, they will be fed electrolytes and other stuff weigh in at 1375 and be back up to 1500 pounds the next evening. (That is as long as they do not have a weigh back)

My guess is that not too many commercial cattle would fair to much better than that, if they did not just bloat up and die from the stress.

When people buy a show horse I'm pretty sure it is for the competition not a profit, we buy a calve that can compete but he is not going to win any majors, he will finish out and compete at the county level with a shot at winning. If they get the average they will make some money, get more they will make good money. We have a family that spends more on calves then they could ever image getting back, but they are in it to win, sad thing is big money is not a guarantee you will win. More than half the calves at our county level are calves from the area, and these calves are not really bred with any goal in mind, if you saw them you would understand what I met.

Bottom line Club Calves are bred to be shown, commercial calves are bred to fed in a feed lot, goals are different, calves are different. They both serve a purpose.

 

[Jovid]

I was referring that they have a full gutted almost finished look to them from 500 pounds, not that they are finished, but with the thickness and hair they have a different look that a commercial feeder steer.

The rest of your statement just proves that it is a different world than commercial.
There are beef programs that deal with showing commercial cattle, the calves are usually from district or county the fair is in, there are weigh-ins to make sure they meet a minimum daily gain and are shown against each other at the end. These are not club calves; this would be a true market class, probably how the intention of a market class started, but people be people some one went to the next state and found a better steer and bam it is what it is know.

Your point about finishing out at 18 to 20 months has more to do with the way they are manipulated to hit a point or weight on a given day, Let's say a steer is shown at jackpots shows for 6 months and there is a show every other week.
Calf gets his food and water held back before weigh-in, hauled all over the country, put in a cooler box, at 50F for 90 to 120 days. If the calf hits his optimum weight at 14 months he is fed filler and top dress to hold his weight and keep him fresh looking for 2 to 4 months, and they still weight close to 1500 pounds, they will be fed electrolytes and other stuff weigh in at 1375 and be back up to 1500 pounds the next evening. (That is as long as they do not have a weigh back)

My guess is that not too many commercial cattle would fair to much better than that, if they did not just bloat up and die from the stress.

When people buy a show horse I'm pretty sure it is for the competition not a profit, we buy a calve that can compete but he is not going to win any majors, he will finish out and compete at the county level with a shot at winning. If they get the average they will make some money, get more they will make good money. We have a family that spends more on calves then they could ever image getting back, but they are in it to win, sad thing is big money is not a guarantee you will win. More than half the calves at our county level are calves from the area, and these calves are not really bred with any goal in mind, if you saw them you would understand what I met.

Bottom line Club Calves are bred to be shown, commercial calves are bred to fed in a feed lot, goals are different, calves are different. They both serve a purpose.

You are correct in everything you have said. The only question is what kind of carcass quality will the club calf have that has been fed, starved, fed, starved to achieve a certain weight at any given time? it can't be good.

The other factor is most club calves are supposed to be a FFA or 4-H project. With that being said what are we teaching our kids about raising BEEF? If you are judging club calves based on looks why do they weigh them? As you have stated the club calves are not judged on performance or carcass so there really is not reason to weigh them.

Yes there is a difference in a market calf and a club calf. That is why most of the counties around here are going back to the market steer shows for the kids. They calculate rate of gain and carcass quality.

Most of the club calves around here sell between $1,500 and $5,000 at 4-5 months of age.

 

[VCC]

We don't hold them back when showing jackpots, we do feed less grain and more hay the night before we haul them, just helps keep them healthy. We weigh when right when we get to the show then feed and water after we weigh, so there is probably a 30 - 60 pound difference in the calf at this time. We usually have to go 300 to 400 miles one way to show. I would not call it starving if you hold back feed for a short period, you have to do that to dogs and cats every time they go into the vet for test.

Our calves are for the fair too, but we show prior to the fair, first year we had a commercial Angus calf that could stand in the middle of the pack in the English division but not the crossbred, the calves do well on feed conversion and grade out fine.

Our show is in June, calves are usually Feb - March calves, average around 1350, most grade high choice, have had several grade prime, state plant stamped USDA Prime, This steer got right on the truck from the fair but most calves come back home spend 2-3weeks on grain hay and some sweet feed just to calm down and wait for the processor, pigs and sheep go first.

We do pay more than market, but that is because we go to the jackpot shows, if it were just for the fair, we would take one from our cows.

Commercial

Club calf

 

[splinter ridge farm]

Check out "Q-Dog" in the clubby bulls. They have a picture of him at 3 years old promoting him. He is the real deal!

 

[grand chaser09]

if you look up kadabra they show a young picture and a mature one as well.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

It really is a different world. All our show steers are commercials that are just fed well :lol: Thanks for everyones input.