Johnson grass

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

The way I took the question was the man was wanting to feed his cattle on stockpiled Johnson grass after frost. This will kill cattle due to prusiac acid.

Thanks Caustic. I guess some people can't comprehend what they read.

 

[Chuck]

Before commenting on JG I wanted to check with NRCS about it's status in MO. As I had thought, it's classified as a noxious weedin MO

Seeding it here would be a hanging offense, I do believe. :frowns:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Last year I took over an abandoned field that had been not taken care of for years. My plan was to plant Cheyenne Bermuda grass.

I killed everything with Roundup, and a Remedy like stuff. The 18 A looked like a moonscape for about 4-6 weeks after the two applications. I planted the seed and fertilized, just like I was told to do by our agronomists.

The rains came and before I knew it I had Johnson Grass (JG) everywhere. It was too wet to get into the filed so it grew and grew. Finally it was shading the new seedlings as it reached in some areas six feet tall.

Too tall to mow because it would lay on the seedlings, we thought of baling it, but opted to wick it with Roundup. I build a 10 ft wick with a kit from the feed store and placing the wicks and collars into a three inch PVC pipe that had an elbow and a screw cap. Put it on the front loader , filled it with 50% Roundup and took off for the field. As I travelled the field going 1.5 MPH and pushing over this very tall JG, I felt that all I was doing was wasting my time and money. Anyway, there were few options at this point. By golly, within two weeks I had a 90% kill of the JG. Widking therefore is one very effective means to hit the taller JG while sparing shorter plants like Bermuda, clover, etc. and using very little herbicide at the same time.

I even tried wicking horse nettle in my fescue/clover pastures. This worked to some extent, but was no where as effective as with the JG.

Billy

Billy - I followed the idea of "Wicking" up to a point, but I lost out somewhere along the line in regard to the 'wicks' and 'collars'. Could you elaborate the design technique a little? I guess I should understand that okay, but something seems to get in the way of my brain! Thank you for your help.

 

[stocky]

dun, you are absolutely right, johnson grass is a noxious weed in missouri. it would be illegal to plant the seed. it is, however a very nutritious and high producing feed, especially as hay if cut before it goes to seed. virtually all the creek bottoms and river bottoms in my area have it in them unless the cattle pasture it out. then it will still come back over a period of years.
caustic, yes, the question in the original post was about stockpiling johnson grass for feed after frost. that is why i mentioned that if the cows arent eating it at frost, you have to wait 5 days or so to let the acid go into the ground, then it makes great feed. if the cows are eating it at frost, you dont have to take them out, they will be fine. i might add that stockpiling it doesnt work real well because, just like cane, after frost the nutrition goes into the ground in a short period of time and it becomes stalks with not much food value---better get it all eaten within a month. it isnt like fescue that still has food value up into january
mahoney, yes, i guess i am guilty of not comprehending what i read, but there are only a certain few days that the johnson grass is poison after frost and then only if the cows arent currently eating it---so if i just gave you a "yes" or a "yes it is poison" answer, then you would think i was telling you that you couldnt use it for feed for fear of poison. that would be a totally false impression of johnsongrass----sorry if i gave you a whole lot more info than you wanted

 

[Wewild]

dun, you are absolutely right, johnson grass is a noxious weed in missouri. it would be illegal to plant the seed. it is, however a very nutritious and high producing feed, especially as hay if cut before it goes to seed. virtually all the creek bottoms and river bottoms in my area have it in them unless the cattle pasture it out. then it will still come back over a period of years.
caustic, yes, the question in the original post was about stockpiling johnson grass for feed after frost. that is why i mentioned that if the cows arent eating it at frost, you have to wait 5 days or so to let the acid go into the ground, then it makes great feed. if the cows are eating it at frost, you dont have to take them out, they will be fine. i might add that stockpiling it doesnt work real well because, just like cane, after frost the nutrition goes into the ground in a short period of time and it becomes stalks with not much food value---better get it all eaten within a month. it isnt like fescue that still has food value up into january

First frost seems to kill ours ...... don't see how it could be stock piled.

 

[MrBilly]

Hey Doc, I will try.

Take a 10-20 ft three inch diameter pvc pipe. For me 10 ft was big enough. Drill a hole 15/16 inch in diameter, and then another 8 inches down the length of the pipe this will eventually will be fitted with 2 compression collars and one wick. The wick surface (called 1/2 inch Pistachio Rope) will be eight/ inches long. About 3/4 inch further down the length the row drill another hole and then eight inches another, and so on. You repeat this until you get to the end of the pipe. Note there is a wick free gap of aobut 1 inch between the collars of two adjacent wicks. We will now take care of this.

Then repeat this same drilling again about 3/4 inch parallel to the first row of holes. Do this in a way that the second row of holes are not lined up on the holes in the first row - this is because you want the wicks in one row to overlap the empty spaces between each of the wicks in the first row - am I loosing myself , or you Doc?

You buy the kit from a feed store, it consists of wicks that are about 16 inches long and you get compression collars, rubber gromets, and caps with them. You cement the collars to the pvc pipe, let them dry. The wick is inserted into the compression collar so that the wick is inside the pvc about 4 inches on each end. you tighten the compression collars and it gives you a water tight seal so not herbacide drips out around the wicks, but only soaks them. Actually there is a slight amount of drip from the wicks, but not the collars.

You do the second row the same way. The second row wicks now alternate with the first row so that there is an overlap by the wicks and no spaces along the ten feet are without a wicking surface. Clear as mud?

You put an elbow on the end that has a screw cap. I use those large stainless steel screw band clamps and attach it to my hay fork on the front loader. With the elbow straight up in the air, you fill with herbicide (I think it is about 3 gallons per ten feet?) with some surfactant in it. It wets the wicks and then you drive off adjusting the height of the boom to top the weed and not the grass you want to save. The wick is rotated once filled so the surfaces are at 3-6 o'clock for passive filling of wicks. Six makes for greater flow, put the wicks up at 12 o'clock and it turns off so you can leave the field. The directions tell you to wick in two directions using a 33% solution of Roundup, but I had too much to do, and a friend said he used a 50% solution and only one pass - it worked for me!

I will try to take some photos of this and put it on my conservations website and then I will post the URL. A picture is worth my 2000 words, no?


Billy

 

[MrBilly]

Here are detailed photos of the wick and its parts with information on where one mgiht buy them.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictu ... 745&idx=36

Start with page 36 to see the wick pictures.

Click on the right arrow above the pictures to scroll through the rest of the wick photos.

Billy

 

[Campground Cattle]

dun, you are absolutely right, johnson grass is a noxious weed in missouri. it would be illegal to plant the seed. it is, however a very nutritious and high producing feed, especially as hay if cut before it goes to seed. virtually all the creek bottoms and river bottoms in my area have it in them unless the cattle pasture it out. then it will still come back over a period of years.
caustic, yes, the question in the original post was about stockpiling johnson grass for feed after frost. that is why i mentioned that if the cows arent eating it at frost, you have to wait 5 days or so to let the acid go into the ground, then it makes great feed. if the cows are eating it at frost, you dont have to take them out, they will be fine. i might add that stockpiling it doesnt work real well because, just like cane, after frost the nutrition goes into the ground in a short period of time and it becomes stalks with not much food value---better get it all eaten within a month. it isnt like fescue that still has food value up into january

First frost seems to kill ours ...... don't see how it could be stock piled.

Frost kills all the grass in our area. Stockpiling in our area is considered keeping cows off a pasture untill after frost, then turning them to feed.
Might be another one of those regional differences.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Hey Doc, I will try.

Take a 10-20 ft three inch diameter pvc pipe. For me 10 ft was big enough. Drill a hole 15/16 inch in diameter, and then another 8 inches down the length of the pipe this will eventually will be fitted with 2 compression collars and one wick. The wick surface (called 1/2 inch Pistachio Rope) will be eight/ inches long. About 3/4 inch further down the length the row drill another hole and then eight inches another, and so on. You repeat this until you get to the end of the pipe. Note there is a wick free gap of aobut 1 inch between the collars of two adjacent wicks. We will now take care of this.

Then repeat this same drilling again about 3/4 inch parallel to the first row of holes. Do this in a way that the second row of holes are not lined up on the holes in the first row - this is because you want the wicks in one row to overlap the empty spaces between each of the wicks in the first row - am I loosing myself , or you Doc?

You buy the kit from a feed store, it consists of wicks that are about 16 inches long and you get compression collars, rubber gromets, and caps with them. You cement the collars to the pvc pipe, let them dry. The wick is inserted into the compression collar so that the wick is inside the pvc about 4 inches on each end. you tighten the compression collars and it gives you a water tight seal so not herbacide drips out around the wicks, but only soaks them. Actually there is a slight amount of drip from the wicks, but not the collars.

You do the second row the same way. The second row wicks now alternate with the first row so that there is an overlap by the wicks and no spaces along the ten feet are without a wicking surface. Clear as mud?

You put an elbow on the end that has a screw cap. I use those large stainless steel screw band clamps and attach it to my hay fork on the front loader. With the elbow straight up in the air, you fill with herbicide (I think it is about 3 gallons per ten feet?) with some surfactant in it. It wets the wicks and then you drive off adjusting the height of the boom to top the weed and not the grass you want to save. The wick is rotated once filled so the surfaces are at 3-6 o'clock for passive filling of wicks. Six makes for greater flow, put the wicks up at 12 o'clock and it turns off so you can leave the field. The directions tell you to wick in two directions using a 33% solution of Roundup, but I had too much to do, and a friend said he used a 50% solution and only one pass - it worked for me!

I will try to take some photos of this and put it on my conservations website and then I will post the URL. A picture is worth my 2000 words, no?


Billy

Holy Smoke, Billy!! I asked for a taste of your Apple pie, and I received an entire "Seven Course Banquet" complete with Appetizer(s), Salad, Main Course, Dessert, Champagne- - -AND - -after-dinner mints! Thank you very much. I really didn't intend for you to devote your very early morning moments to answering my inquiry to that extent, however your answer was exemplary! And, no, you didn't loose me, it was very clear. In regard to the 50% solution of Roundup-and only one pass- - -I wouldn't be surprised if Roundup suggested the 'two' passes of 33% solution because that would have resulted your using 16% MORE Roundup to achieve the same results! Hello?? Your 2000 words clarify the picture very well. Thank you again. DOC

 

[Wewild]

dun, you are absolutely right, johnson grass is a noxious weed in missouri. it would be illegal to plant the seed. it is, however a very nutritious and high producing feed, especially as hay if cut before it goes to seed. virtually all the creek bottoms and river bottoms in my area have it in them unless the cattle pasture it out. then it will still come back over a period of years.
caustic, yes, the question in the original post was about stockpiling johnson grass for feed after frost. that is why i mentioned that if the cows arent eating it at frost, you have to wait 5 days or so to let the acid go into the ground, then it makes great feed. if the cows are eating it at frost, you dont have to take them out, they will be fine. i might add that stockpiling it doesnt work real well because, just like cane, after frost the nutrition goes into the ground in a short period of time and it becomes stalks with not much food value---better get it all eaten within a month. it isnt like fescue that still has food value up into january

First frost seems to kill ours ...... don't see how it could be stock piled.

Frost kills all the grass in our area. Stockpiling in our area is considered keeping cows off a pasture untill after frost, then turning them to feed.
Might be another one of those regional differences.

It was my misunderstanding ... we have largely fescue and clover and it doesn't die.

 

[wildsawmill]

Here are detailed photos of the wick and its parts with information on where one mgiht buy them.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictu ... 745&idx=36

Start with page 36 to see the wick pictures.

Click on the right arrow above the pictures to scroll through the rest of the wick photos.

Billy

say any way to get this info back as the link dont work

 

[wildsawmill]

preston,
Johnsongrass makes great hay. it is high in nutrition and energy. cows love it and do very well eating it. it makes the best hay if you cut it just as it is starting to head----do not let it go to seed or every where you feed it will start new johsongrass. it is a warm season grass, so after the first cutting of fescue it will come strong and fast, in sw missouri, we get 3 or 4 cuttings each summer, depending on the amount of rain.
it makes great pasture, but at certain times it is poisonous to cattle. i have seen it kill in 5 minutes and i have seen cows bloat and live long enough to get help. you can never predict for sure when it will kill a cow. , the others werent harmed. not all cows are reactive to it. once the cows start eating it, they are resistant and will be fine for the season, however they love it and will eat it into the ground and kill it out if you let them. if the cows are not currently eating the johnson grass when frost hits, you need to wait 5 days or so before turning them into the field. then they will eat it like candy.
i have never seen a problem with it as hay, we have pastured and fed hay from johnsongrass for over 40 years. you just have to manage it properly----like a guy asked, "i have johnsongrass in my hayfield, what do i do?" the best answer is ----fertilize it heavy

==========
"stocky"

Thanks for the summary...never had much experience with it...hear a lot of folks talking about JG...with all kinds of mixed ops. Was just concerned about the ocasional sprig I see pop up to 6" real quick...in the fields on rotation...here and there. Don't know where it comes from...birds...I guess.

my neighbor had 8 get in a patch in august and 4 died within minutes
ok this is skarry so jg can kill in august more info please

 

[MrBilly]

Hey,

Billy's Wick Wiper

Go to this URL where you can enlarge the pics:

http://ranchers.net/photopost/showgalle ... puser=4087

Billy