Johnes' disease? I raise Brahman cattle and have a problem that seems to be unfamiliar in this part of the country. A few years ago, my herd bull started losing weight - a lot of weight...also, his hoofs grew quite long, and even after having them trimmed, they grew back, almost immediately. After pouring gobs of feed into him, only to have it come out the other other end, it was finally decided to put him down...so - here it is 2 or 3 years later, and I have a young cow that is doing the same thing -- no matter how much we feed her, she keeps losing weight. I have read this board and seen nothing that approaches this problem. Can anyone shed some light? (I might add, this cow is an off-spring of the deceased bull). I have another cow that is out of him but she seems to be doing quite well. Both of these young cows have calves, different strain of bull. Am I to expect the same thing to happen agan? Hope someone can give some advice..
Johnes' disease???
- Thread starter Rusty2025
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Texan
Well-known member
Welcome to the Boards! What did your vet say? Since you're concerned about Johne's, I assume that you have had your cow tested?
http://johnes.org/
http://johnes.org/
We just had a cow test positive for Johnes. I did hours and hours of reading on it. We then tested the whole herd, and all were negative. The blood test are not very accurate. If I remember right, you would have to test each animal 4 times over the period of a year to be 95% sure that the animal doesn't have Johnes. The vet said a negative blood test only meant that the animal didn't test positive, and vice versa. He told me about one of his clients who had a cow test positive, then retested the cow four more times and all tests came back negative. The surest way to tell is a fecal test. The test takes 16-18 weeks to "grow." I think the best advice I got was from an old vet that told me if I had a cow that scoured and lost weight once, to treat her. If she did it twice, sell her, and that's what I did.
Seems I did read somewhere that a bull can pass the Johnes virus. It also seems that there are more questions than answers to this disease. Not many concrete things.
Brad
Seems I did read somewhere that a bull can pass the Johnes virus. It also seems that there are more questions than answers to this disease. Not many concrete things.
Brad
TheBullLady
Well-known member
Very possible it's Johnes.. for some reason, Brahman cattle are especially susceptible.
I would suggest shipping the cow that is showing symptoms now.. and watch for any additional cows to show. It's a long drawn out process to get it out of the herd.. you'll have to cull on symptoms. I would also suggest not keeping any offspring of the bull, but that may not be feasible.
You will generally notice symptoms when the cow has been stressed.. ie: weaning a calf, calving, shipping, etc. They are generally between 3 and 6 years old.
It's a nasty disease and can be very depressing when you have to ship good cattle to get rid of it. Good luck
I would suggest shipping the cow that is showing symptoms now.. and watch for any additional cows to show. It's a long drawn out process to get it out of the herd.. you'll have to cull on symptoms. I would also suggest not keeping any offspring of the bull, but that may not be feasible.
You will generally notice symptoms when the cow has been stressed.. ie: weaning a calf, calving, shipping, etc. They are generally between 3 and 6 years old.
It's a nasty disease and can be very depressing when you have to ship good cattle to get rid of it. Good luck
Thanks for the imput. I took the bull to two different vets - both said basically the same thing -- they figured it might be Johnes, with no cure. I fed him Probias the first time he started losing weight, which seemed to help, but the next bout- he just kept losing weight. The cow that seems to have the same thing was taken off my farm today, although from what I have read, and what you guys say, it is not contagious, only passed through the blood. If this is true, then I have one other cow that can be infected - the remainder of the herd came from a different bull.
I really appreciate your replys, although it wasn't what I wanted to hear. My Brahmans' are pretty special guys to me, and it hurt sorely to see the cow taken off today.... so goes life on a farm.....
I really appreciate your replys, although it wasn't what I wanted to hear. My Brahmans' are pretty special guys to me, and it hurt sorely to see the cow taken off today.... so goes life on a farm.....
TheBullLady
Well-known member
Rusty,
I'm sorry to say, blood is not the only way it can be transmitted. The most common way is through fecal contamination. The reason so many dairy cattle are infected is because they are generally kept in close confinement, and lay in manure. Generally what occurs is the infected cow defecates, she or other herd mates lay in the manure, get it on their udders, and the calves get contaminated when they nurse the cows. If your cows are in a large pasture and don't calve in a lot, you have less chance of contamination. But keep in mind that your infected cow / bull can still contaminate others via their manure. It has not been determined how long Johnes can stay alive in manure.
One of the vets at TX A & M has been involved in a big study on Johnes.. I've talked with him at great lengths about the disease. His recommendation has been to ship everything that is related to the cow. You will still have to continually watch your herd. It's something that can re-occur years from now.
I feel your pain! I also have Brahman cattle, and it's a sad day when one has to be shipped.
I'm sorry to say, blood is not the only way it can be transmitted. The most common way is through fecal contamination. The reason so many dairy cattle are infected is because they are generally kept in close confinement, and lay in manure. Generally what occurs is the infected cow defecates, she or other herd mates lay in the manure, get it on their udders, and the calves get contaminated when they nurse the cows. If your cows are in a large pasture and don't calve in a lot, you have less chance of contamination. But keep in mind that your infected cow / bull can still contaminate others via their manure. It has not been determined how long Johnes can stay alive in manure.
One of the vets at TX A & M has been involved in a big study on Johnes.. I've talked with him at great lengths about the disease. His recommendation has been to ship everything that is related to the cow. You will still have to continually watch your herd. It's something that can re-occur years from now.
I feel your pain! I also have Brahman cattle, and it's a sad day when one has to be shipped.
These cattle are not confined but as all Brahman owners know, they stick together like glue, and do lay in their own manure....I have commercial cattle also but none of them have been affected it seems. When we had the bull put down, I buried him. It would not be logical to try and sell this cow as she has lost a lot of weight. She has been moved to another farm where there are no cattle at this time. I have sold two bulls that were from the dead bull, and am wondering if he passed the gene on to them..bet there will be some upset people if that is true..Enjoyed reading the board -and hope to drop in from time to time...Thanks to all.
It's not a gene that would be passed on. It's the prenatal exposure to the organism. From what I've read, exposure has to happen at birth or shortly after, and mature cows can't pass it to each other. The way it would be passed, would be from mother to offspring. If the cow you have is positive, and showing clinical signs, then you only have two options, sell her, or bury her. There is no cure.
Brad
Brad
Mike H
Member
I just had an encounter with what my vet and I both thought was Johnnes disease. The cow never recovered after calving, was scoured continually, appetite was acceptable, but weight loss continued.
TAMU diagnostic lab results of fecal and blood was negative for Johnnes, but had a titer of 3200 for Lepto. The cow had not been vaccinated recently which could have accounted for the titer level. Ship the cow before she dies.
TAMU diagnostic lab results of fecal and blood was negative for Johnnes, but had a titer of 3200 for Lepto. The cow had not been vaccinated recently which could have accounted for the titer level. Ship the cow before she dies.
TheBullLady
Well-known member
Mike.. you're a long way from TAMU! Did you take the cow there, or just send the samples off to be tested there?
Mike H
Member
Hello Elaine,
My vet took samples during an exam. He advised that treatment for Lepto that has an acceptable success rate is (for a 1100 pound cow) 55 cc of LA 200 followed by a second dose 3 days later. Give 5-7 cc per injection site. We shipped the cow.
My vet took samples during an exam. He advised that treatment for Lepto that has an acceptable success rate is (for a 1100 pound cow) 55 cc of LA 200 followed by a second dose 3 days later. Give 5-7 cc per injection site. We shipped the cow.
