Joel Salatin

[gberry]

CAB doesn't get the premiums Salatin does.

 

[tncattle]

I think eyes can get bad from weed seed, or to tall of grass...But pink eye is a different thing....and yes flies can spread it....

OK, we agree that flies spread it! Case closed on that one.
If the majority of pinkeye is not caused by pasture conditions, then what is the main cause?

As far as I know pinkeye can be either a virus or a bacterium.
It starts with an injury to the eye and/or foreign matter in the eye. And the most common place for an eye injury (poked) or to get foreign matter (seeds pollen Etc) is while grazing, as most of a cows time is spent grazing.

The next best place for them to contract pinkeye is while eating round hay bales that have been placed on their side and eaten from the center (tunneling) or tunneling from the sides.
And any hay bunker that puts the hay above the cows head.

Re:

I thought Salatin was in Virginia?

True! You are correct, but you don't win anything!
But the last time I checked Virginia was still in the US and we are talking about a US (DA) grant.

SL

The reason I asked if he was from Virginia because I read a lot of the info on the link and it seemed to relate only to Wisconsin. :cboy:

 

[Cowdirt]

I had never heard of Mr Salatin before this.
My impression is that he is a marketer more than a farmer. Nothing wrong with that. Selling sizzle instead of steak is one "old timey" expression for it. Recreational ag is the more modern term which I would use.
A couple of farms in my area do very well at recreational ag. One started started as a roadside market and u-pick and blossomed into a very large business with a winery, restaurant and a lot more. Huge business.
Another, younger operation started as a corn maze.

I maintain this isn't a good fit for more than a few. The operations I mention are run by natural born promoters. They love having the public in and thrive on that. How many current farmers do you know who love having the public in? I don't know many. Personally, I hate the idea of having to entertain people.

Non industrial ag has a lot of buzz--but a store here just went broke offering "natural" and "organic" foods. The owner moved the business to a trendy section of Indianapolis looking for more of the well heeled sushi and brie crowd. I ate a $4.50 dozen of their free range eggs. They weren't bad, but to me they weren't superior to the far cheaper corporate eggs.

The trouble is, the non farming public gets this vision in their head that farms can (and should) exist like they did in the Andy Griffith era.

Folks like Mr Salatin play to that nostalgic touch, and to the extent that he "disses" modern agriculture he does us a disservice. His style agriculture won't feed America at any price working America is willing to pay.

If you look at Mom and Pops in other fields, a few survive like Mr Salatin by being great promoters. "Orange County Choppers" comes to mind. A few great Restaurants and Bars.
Other than that, it's Wal Mart and franchise restaurants.

There is a place for the Salatins and others, but they do not offer a template which should be laid over all of agriculture.

You nailed it John250. Well stated. Mr. Salatin has every right to operate the way he does. That being said, I think most traditional cattle people have a natural aversion for promoters. We're an independent lot. We have a right to be that way. Mr. Salatin would fall on hard times quickly if he did not have the "wannabes" to attend his seminars, buy his literature and working vacations.

 

[handydandy]

Mr. Salatin would fall on hard times quickly if he did not have the "wannabes" to attend his seminars, buy his literature and working vacations

I doubt it! He sells direct to consumers and restaurants and gets a price that everyone on here would like to get.

Why ridicule a man that makes money from books, seminars and other ideas he has? I know a lot of ranchers that wouldn't have made it except for gas or oil wells.

He is a quality person that farms and ranches -- why do some feel the need to knock him or his beliefs so nastily?

 

[Sir Loin]

Skyline,
I have no problem with his marketing program.
I'm a third generation of direct marketing. My grandfather started out selling ice for iceboxes. My father started out with a huckster's route selling produce, milk and eggs.
I started out with strawberries, sweet corn and pumpkins.
But just as in real estate, you must be in the right location.
You can make living at it, but you can't make money at it in today's world.

It is his, and others, truth in marketing I have a problem with.
If he is successful, which I highly doubt, it is because of his deceptive marketing only and nothing else, or he has outside income.

I was raised in SE PA and have been in the Shenandoah Valley many time and I know the winters there. And if he doesn't feed his cattle something in the winter they will die.
Fact is, if he does not feed his heard somthing in the winter, the humane society should be all over him like white on rice!
Case closed!

And unless he is using old time medication practices, such as salt in the eye to cure pink eye, he most certainly is using present day medication or his heard would die!

And here is another little goodie for you.

We use 10 ft. X 12 ft. X 2 ft. high floorless, portable field shelters housing about 75 birds each to grow these 8-week meat birds.

Now lets see, 10 X 12 = 120 SF ÷ 75 birds = 1.6 SF per bird.
Why that's about the same square footage that egg producers are using and PETA and the animal rights people are all over them!
Sounds like PETA should check this out!

 

[tncattle]

quote: We use 10 ft. X 12 ft. X 2 ft. high floorless, portable field shelters housing about 75 birds each to grow these 8-week meat birds.


You left out the part about them moving those meat birds every single day to a fresh section of pasture.

FYI- heard is something you hear, herd is a group cattle or other herd animals

 

[Sir Loin]

I think most traditional cattle people have a natural aversion for promoters.

Not me! I love them all for promoting my product (angus), especially BI LO, McDonalds, Buger king and hardies.
And it's all for free.
You cant beet that!
Don't you just love it when a plan comes together.
Sure beats dealing with 1,000s of walkin customers who only want to buy a pound of hamburger or a steak.

FYI:
On April 18 there will be some people coming out to ultrasound and certify 200 steers that will then go directly to the slaughterhouse as certified angus beef.
How's that for innovated direct marketing?

 

[IL Rancher]

Most folks who are doing this also surrond that pen with a good size section of electric netting. This bascally means the shelter is for getting out of the sun or rain but othe than that they have lots of room.. I beleive the photos I have seen of his operation show this to be the case with him as well.

 

[livestock101]

quote: We use 10 ft. X 12 ft. X 2 ft. high floorless, portable field shelters housing about 75 birds each to grow these 8-week meat birds.


You left out the part about them moving those meat birds every single day to a fresh section of pasture.

FYI- heard is something you hear, herd is a group cattle or other herd animals

Yes, he does move his shelter everyday but what about the days that it's raining hard, snowing, blowing, etc. We have 70-80 chickens and I can tell you first hand that they refuse to go outside in those conditions.....they stay inside. And what about during the night? Chickens normally go in at night. A 10'x12' would be pretty tight for his 75 birds. We currently run a 12'x24' unit....much larger than what he has and it's tight in there at times when all the birds are in.

And heard or herd.....we all knew what he meant. Let's not make this a spelling lesson. It's fair to say everyone on this board has made a spelling mistake at some point.

 

[Sir Loin]

You left out the part about them moving those meat birds every single day to a fresh section of pasture.

Not left out, just haven't got there yet. I will get to that later under "labor costs".
PS: We haven't even talked about water yet either.

Now as he says he moves his electric fence and his portable field shelter daily, here is your home work.

Use any shape pasture you wish and figure out how you can move an electric fence daily just enough for a days feeding and still have access to the pond (water) without having the cattle walking on the previous 7 days used pasture.

A. Compute your best guess as to how long it takes to move 1,000 ft of electric fence 100 feet.
B.Compute how long it takes to move, say,6 portable field shelter.
C.Then compute how long it will take to carry feed & water to those 6 portable field shelters.
Your answers:
A. _______ B. _______ C. _________

FYI- heard is something you hear, herd is a group cattle or other herd animals

Thanks but it's my darn auto spell check. It's got messed up when my mechanic fixed my #1 macro.
I'll have he look at it the next time he's here. Until then you will just have to excuse my indiscretion or come down here and fix it for me.

SL

 

[tncattle]

quote:And heard or herd.....we all knew what he meant. Let's not make this a spelling lesson. It's fair to say everyone on this board has made a spelling mistake at some point

Your right but that is such a common word used when talking about cattle I was kind of surprised by that.

 

[Sir Loin]

FYI:
Now here's an interesting read.

Pinkeye is a bacterial eye disease that is very common in Virginia Cattle. It occurs most often during the summer but may occur any time of the year. Considerable economic loss occurs because of weight gain losses in calves and because of lost value of cattle who are left with eye scars or who are blind. Recent research data on pinkeye treatment should be considered by producers as they deal with cases of pinkeye in their herds this summer.

Source: http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-922.html

Pink Eye: Health Problem and Economic Loss
Pasture management (clipping and dragging to break up manure pats) is an important component of control, as is fly control.

Source: http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/ope/enotes/showarticle.cfm?id=9

 

[tncattle]

If you have read any of my posts you know I'm a greehorn and trying to learn. Anyway, is it possible for the chickens to do as Salatin says? Eat the the fly larva and whatever else out of the cow manure, then scratch and spread it out everywhere? Thus relieving the fly problem?

 

[Sir Loin]

If you have read any of my posts you know I'm a greehorn and trying to learn.

I'm aware of that! But you did ask "Does anyone on here farm as he does? Cattle or whatever else?"

is it possible for the chickens to do as Salatin says? Eat the the fly larva and whatever else out of the cow manure, then scratch and spread it out everywhere?

Yes, but only in their little 10 X 12 foot space.
If it were true, he would have to have enough range shelters to cover the entire daily pasture area that had just been vacated.
Now if he said he did not fence them in, then he would be doing exactly what people did long ago, and he would be accomplishing exactly what he said he is doing. But they must roam free. If they don't have free range how do they get to all the cow pies outside their pen?
They must be left to roam free on the range. Going into their shelter only at night or foul weather. (Hence the name "rain/range shelter").
Fact: 75 chickens in a 10X12 space will pick it clean in less then 1 hr.
And you will have all the chicken droppings (fertilizer) in one spot?

Now another problem is chickens seldom scratch in wet cow pies as there are no bugs in it when it is that fresh. And with no corn (grain) in it, there is no reason to even bother scratching. He would have to have the chickens follow the cows at least a week later if they are going to find anything to eat (no grain, bugs only).
Re:

Thus relieving the fly problem?

NO! as they can only get to those few pies that are in their 10X12 space.
Even if they were allowed free range, there are so many other bugs to eat, fly larva isn't even on their menu.
;-)
Re:

And heard or herd.....

My dad always said "if you send a fool to school, all you will ever get is an educated fool".
Hummmmm? I guess in my case he was only half right!
:lol:

 

[tncattle]

Sir Loin,

Why do you use so many exclamation points? Are you really that upset by all this :?:

 

[gberry]

Sir Loin,

Why do you use so many exclamation points? Are you really that upset by all this :?:

Obviously. As I stated before if he can't do it, it is impossible for anyone else to do it successfully.

 

[houstoncutter]

You left out the part about them moving those meat birds every single day to a fresh section of pasture.

Not left out, just haven't got there yet. I will get to that later under "labor costs".
PS: We haven't even talked about water yet either.

Now as he says he moves his electric fence and his portable field shelter daily, here is your home work.

Use any shape pasture you wish and figure out how you can move an electric fence daily just enough for a days feeding and still have access to the pond (water) without having the cattle walking on the previous 7 days used pasture.

A. Compute your best guess as to how long it takes to move 1,000 ft of electric fence 100 feet.
B.Compute how long it takes to move, say,6 portable field shelter.
C.Then compute how long it will take to carry feed & water to those 6 portable field shelters.
Your answers:
A. _______ B. _______ C. _________

FYI- heard is something you hear, herd is a group cattle or other herd animals

Thanks but it's my darn auto spell check. It's got messed up when my mechanic fixed my #1 macro.
I'll have he look at it the next time he's here. Until then you will just have to excuse my indiscretion or come down here and fix it for me.

SL[/quot

To answer your question about time, about 45 minutes with a 4wheeler. First of all your are not feeding the chickens , you are having them free range behind the cattle... The shelters can be moved with a tractor or 4wheeler in short order. As for the water its quite simple, and if you cant think of it you might not want to be casting so many stones at the fella. Water lines are ran underground through all the pastures. We use black poly roll pipe. A ditch witch to put it down and pop up terminals about every couple hundred feet to snap into. It is one of the best investments you will ever make... As for the electric fencing. You have your outside main laterals hot. You take stepin stakes and electric poly tape on a roll. The tape is on a reel, so it will roll up or out. Put the tape up ahead of you, the cattle will move to the new grass, put the tape up behind you. Presto shazam guess what? you got water and your cows are not walking over your previously grazed grass. Just a piece of information, this fella was doing this long before he ever sold the fist book or had the first tour on his farm. He was sucessful back then as well.

 

[Bluestem]

If you have read any of my posts you know I'm a greehorn and trying to learn. Anyway, is it possible for the chickens to do as Salatin says? Eat the the fly larva and whatever else out of the cow manure, then scratch and spread it out everywhere? Thus relieving the fly problem?[/quote/
Yes. It does work. The chickens won't touch a pile that is to fresh or to dry(my observation) Relieving is the key word. Its not 100%.
You are a "greenhorn"? We all should be greenhorns. Right now you have an open mind and a willingness to learn. You will be miles ahead of some, if, ten years from now you can still proudly claim "I'm a greenhorn".

 

[tncattle]

If you have read any of my posts you know I'm a greehorn and trying to learn. Anyway, is it possible for the chickens to do as Salatin says? Eat the the fly larva and whatever else out of the cow manure, then scratch and spread it out everywhere? Thus relieving the fly problem?[/quote/
Yes. It does work. The chickens won't touch a pile that is to fresh or to dry(my observation) Relieving is the key word. Its not 100%.
You are a "greenhorn"? We all should be greenhorns. Right now you have an open mind and a willingness to learn. You will be miles ahead of some, if, ten years from now you can still proudly claim "I'm a greenhorn".

I agree with you Bluestem, we always need to be trying and open to learning.