Joel Salatin

[Bez>]

Sheesh - sure is a lot of chirping over some guy I have never heard of. Probably a whole pile of us do not even know who this guy is.

He must be pretty important.

I suppose he has a web site and I suppose he makes money somewhere - but does he truly have that great an effect on your lives?

Think I now realize how he does it - he just gets all sorts of folks to argue about his ways and means.

I knew a guy who owned a Ford dealership - he used to say - "there may be bad advertisements and there may be good advertisements - but it was all advertisement. And advertising usually brings in people and money."

I do not think I will even look this guy up - he might get me all stirred up too.

Bez>

that's a lot of talking to say you are doing nothing.

the simple version - he is a holistic management guy.

Thanks.

I thought I would just join in an do what others were doing.

And now you know ..... the rest of the story.

Have a good one!

Bez>

 

[LimiMan]

Just sounds like another guy living off the dreams of wannabes and newbies.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Just sounds like another guy living off the dreams of wannabes and newbies.

what better way. he developed his way of farming. why not take this show on the road thats where the real money is.all you need is a good ringman to build the crowd up

 

[gberry]

Interesting thread. Kind of surprising that so much emotion can be aroused by one simple question. Actually, not all that surprising when you look at most of the other threads on this board.

What I've learned so far is that no one should be raising grass fed beef because it can't taste good and that most people think because they couldn't do it, it can't be done. Pretty sound thinking I guess.

 

[tncattle]

Interesting thread. Kind of surprising that so much emotion can be aroused by one simple question. Actually, not all that surprising when you look at most of the other threads on this board.

What I've learned so far is that no one should be raising grass fed beef because it can't taste good and that most people think because they couldn't do it, it can't be done. Pretty sound thinking I guess.

Well said

 

[Sir Loin]

What I've learned so far is that no one should be raising grass fed beef because it can't taste good and that most people think because they couldn't do it, it can't be done. Pretty sound thinking I guess.

AH, excuse me but maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I have no problem with grass fed beef. I do it myself at times and so do many many other ranchers.
That is, the cows who are producing the calves.
Which is exactly what he is doing.
But what he is not telling you is, what he is feeding the calves that he sells as beef. The fact is, if he can get a premium price for his beef, and restaurants are buying it, he has to be feeding grain.

Now answer me this, he admits to grain feeding his poultry, pigs and rabbits, so what is wrong with grain feeding his cows?

Here is the part that really ticks me off about this guy's scam.

Disregarding conventional wisdom, the Salatins planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds, moved cows daily with portable electric fencing, and invented portable sheltering systems to produce all their animals on perennial prairie polycultures.

"Disregarding conventional wisdom," he " planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
So no one else was "planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
Well I got news for you, long before the Salatins entered the big valley in the 60s every farmer I knew were planted trees, built huge compost piles and dug ponds.
Only then we called his "huge compost piles" manure piles.

Now remember this! He said he "moved cows daily".
Now read his website and you will find he latter says "Our cows eat forage only, a new pasture paddock roughly every day,".
Now which is it? Does he move them "Daily" or "every other day"?
Define "roughly every day" for me!
And this one really takes the cake!

and invented portable sheltering systems

So that's who invented the rain/range shelters and portable building on skids my father and grandfather taught me to make and use.
Sure glad we cleared that one up!

 

[gberry]

What I've learned so far is that no one should be raising grass fed beef because it can't taste good and that most people think because they couldn't do it, it can't be done. Pretty sound thinking I guess.

AH, excuse me but maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I have no problem with grass fed beef. I do it myself at times and so do many many other ranchers.
That is, the cows who are producing the calves.
Which is exactly what he is doing.
But what he is not telling you is, what he is feeding the calves that he sells as beef. The fact is, if he can get a premium price for his beef, and restaurants are buying it, he has to be feeding grain.

Now answer me this, he admits to grain feeding his poultry, pigs and rabbits, so what is wrong with grain feeding his cows?

Here is the part that really ticks me off about this guy's scam.

Disregarding conventional wisdom, the Salatins planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds, moved cows daily with portable electric fencing, and invented portable sheltering systems to produce all their animals on perennial prairie polycultures.

"Disregarding conventional wisdom," he " planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
So no one else was "planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
Well I got news for you, long before the Salatins entered the big valley in the 60s every farmer I knew were planted trees, built huge compost piles and dug ponds.
Only then we called his "huge compost piles" manure piles.

Now remember this! He said he "moved cows daily".
Now read his website and you will find he latter says "Our cows eat forage only, a new pasture paddock roughly every day,".
Now which is it? Does he move them "Daily" or "every other day"?
Define "roughly every day" for me!
And this one really takes the cake!

and invented portable sheltering systems

So that's who invented the rain/range shelters and portable building on skids my father and grandfather taught me to make and use.



Sure glad we cleared that one up!

I think he does tell you exactly what he feeds he cattle. He states they eat forage only. I don't have any reason to doubt him. I also think that he continues to defy conventional wisdom. How big is your compost pile now?

I think his marketing is radically different than the average rancher/farmer and it seems he is handsomely paid for it.

The angus association recently released a report called Priorities First in which the identified the top management categories for cattle producers. The top five were herd nutrition, pasture and range, herd health, financial, and marketing. I would say Salatin is far ahead of the average producer in all these categories.

 

[tncattle]

What I've learned so far is that no one should be raising grass fed beef because it can't taste good and that most people think because they couldn't do it, it can't be done. Pretty sound thinking I guess.

AH, excuse me but maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I have no problem with grass fed beef. I do it myself at times and so do many many other ranchers.
That is, the cows who are producing the calves.
Which is exactly what he is doing.
But what he is not telling you is, what he is feeding the calves that he sells as beef. The fact is, if he can get a premium price for his beef, and restaurants are buying it, he has to be feeding grain.

Now answer me this, he admits to grain feeding his poultry, pigs and rabbits, so what is wrong with grain feeding his cows?

Here is the part that really ticks me off about this guy's scam.

Disregarding conventional wisdom, the Salatins planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds, moved cows daily with portable electric fencing, and invented portable sheltering systems to produce all their animals on perennial prairie polycultures.

"Disregarding conventional wisdom," he " planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
So no one else was "planted trees, built huge compost piles, dug ponds".
Well I got news for you, long before the Salatins entered the big valley in the 60s every farmer I knew were planted trees, built huge compost piles and dug ponds.
Only then we called his "huge compost piles" manure piles.

Now remember this! He said he "moved cows daily".
Now read his website and you will find he latter says "Our cows eat forage only, a new pasture paddock roughly every day,".
Now which is it? Does he move them "Daily" or "every other day"?
Define "roughly every day" for me!
And this one really takes the cake!

and invented portable sheltering systems

So that's who invented the rain/range shelters and portable building on skids my father and grandfather taught me to make and use.
Sure glad we cleared that one up!

I guess I learned from this thread that Sir Loin really dislikes Mr. Salatin. From the last post I would say this is Sir Loin's expression- :x

 

[Sir Loin]

I think he does tell you exactly what he feeds he cattle. He states they eat forage only.

Well, if that's the case, then his beef from the calves he raises are good for nothing but hamburger and the USDA and most universities studies are wrong.

I don't have any reason to doubt him.

I think perhaps you don't have the qualification or experience that makes you qualified to confirm or doubt him.

I also think that he continues to defy conventional wisdom. How big is your compost pile now?

Right now our "manure pile" will make at least 10 tractor trailer loads.
What we don't use as fertilizer we sell to a guy who mixes it with poor dirt and resells it as topsoil after screening.

And here is another little goody for you besides his lies and/or half truths.
Take a good look at all the pics of his pasture.
They are a prescription for pinkeye looking for a place to happen!

I think his marketing is radically different than the average rancher/farmer and it seems he is handsomely paid for it.

There's nothing different or radical about direct marketing. It's been going on since the beginning of time.
Exactly how does he market his calves/beef?

The angus association recently released a report called Priorities First in which the identified the top management categories for cattle producers. The top five were herd nutrition, pasture and range, herd health, financial, and marketing. I would say Salatin is far ahead of the average producer in all these categories.

Well, I would say the AA is correct. I have no problem with that.
As for Salatin, no not "far ahead" he's way behind. He's still back in the 50s and 60s.
Do you know BI-LO, the food chain, now sells beef labeled "guaranteed 100% angus beef"?

 

[john250]

I had never heard of Mr Salatin before this.
My impression is that he is a marketer more than a farmer. Nothing wrong with that. Selling sizzle instead of steak is one "old timey" expression for it. Recreational ag is the more modern term which I would use.
A couple of farms in my area do very well at recreational ag. One started started as a roadside market and u-pick and blossomed into a very large business with a winery, restaurant and a lot more. Huge business.
Another, younger operation started as a corn maze.

I maintain this isn't a good fit for more than a few. The operations I mention are run by natural born promoters. They love having the public in and thrive on that. How many current farmers do you know who love having the public in? I don't know many. Personally, I hate the idea of having to entertain people.

Non industrial ag has a lot of buzz--but a store here just went broke offering "natural" and "organic" foods. The owner moved the business to a trendy section of Indianapolis looking for more of the well heeled sushi and brie crowd. I ate a $4.50 dozen of their free range eggs. They weren't bad, but to me they weren't superior to the far cheaper corporate eggs.

The trouble is, the non farming public gets this vision in their head that farms can (and should) exist like they did in the Andy Griffith era.

Folks like Mr Salatin play to that nostalgic touch, and to the extent that he "disses" modern agriculture he does us a disservice. His style agriculture won't feed America at any price working America is willing to pay.

If you look at Mom and Pops in other fields, a few survive like Mr Salatin by being great promoters. "Orange County Choppers" comes to mind. A few great Restaurants and Bars.
Other than that, it's Wal Mart and franchise restaurants.

There is a place for the Salatins and others, but they do not offer a template which should be laid over all of agriculture.

 

[cowkeeper]

Sir Loin, I dont understand what you mean by the pastures looking like a place for pinkeye to happen. Please elaborate. Thanks

 

[houstoncutter]

I think he does tell you exactly what he feeds he cattle. He states they eat forage only.

Well, if that's the case, then his beef from the calves he raises are good for nothing but hamburger and the USDA and most universities studies are wrong.

I don't have any reason to doubt him.

I think perhaps you don't have the qualification or experience that makes you qualified to confirm or doubt him.

I also think that he continues to defy conventional wisdom. How big is your compost pile now?

Right now our "manure pile" will make at least 10 tractor trailer loads.
What we don't use as fertilizer we sell to a guy who mixes it with poor dirt and resells it as topsoil after screening.

And here is another little goody for you besides his lies and/or half truths.
Take a good look at all the pics of his pasture.
They are a prescription for pinkeye looking for a place to happen!

I think his marketing is radically different than the average rancher/farmer and it seems he is handsomely paid for it.

There's nothing different or radical about direct marketing. It's been going on since the beginning of time.
Exactly how does he market his calves/beef?

The angus association recently released a report called Priorities First in which the identified the top management categories for cattle producers. The top five were herd nutrition, pasture and range, herd health, financial, and marketing. I would say Salatin is far ahead of the average producer in all these categories.

Well, I would say the AA is correct. I have no problem with that.
As for Salatin, no not "far ahead" he's way behind. He's still back in the 50s and 60s.
Do you know BI-LO, the food chain, now sells beef labeled "guaranteed 100% angus beef"?

Never met the fella, but I did meet his son. If the fella raises animals like he did his son, I would say he was on the right track. We spent a couple of days at a seminar . He was well mannered, smart, and had good comon horse sense for a 18 year old. As for his beef being tough, I wouldnt know, nor would you. Here on our place we eat what I call baby beef. We take a cow that raising her last calf. We carry the pair into winter, where they go on ryegrass, most of these calfs would not have a finish. They are killed at about 950 pounds. They have never had grain and are fork tender steaks. Nothing special about the calfs they are usually have LimixBrangus, or LimixBrafords, they are hung for a least 14 days..... That doesnt mean that this model would work for everyone, but if we so had a mind I dont think it would be a problem to sell several calves a year. As for reserch from universities, many times you will have to follow the money trail that they get...Personally I think it skews the research towards the outcome that is wanted. You might not like the way the fella operates, but at least give him the benefit of doubt. One thing I know these people do is age their beef.... For all the talk of raising the right calf finished ,the right way......so much improvement could be made to the American publics meet just by aging it.....but alas thats one of those 50's60's practices.....Of course if its CAB or one of the special brands it gets aged,........hmmmmmmmm think maybe their might be something to that aging

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

Sir Loin, I dont understand what you mean by the pastures looking like a place for pinkeye to happen. Please elaborate.

I meant that the pastures are un-mowed and in this type of farming you never mow.
So as un-mowed pastures are the main cause of pinkeye, it's only a matter of time until he has an out break of pinkeye. Then he will have to medicate, just like the rest of us, or let the cow/calf end up with cancer of the eye and have to shoot her, or his whole heard, as pinkeye is spread by flies.

 

[gberry]

Is it the pasture or the flies?

 

[Sir Loin]

Pasture-based farming
CIAS is strengthening the grass-based farming industry in Wisconsin through a special USDA-CSREES grant: Strengthening Wisconsin's Pasture-Based Farming Industry Through Directed Research.

http://www.cias.wisc.edu/pasture.php
Hummmmm! A USDA GRANT! ($$$$$$$$)
Could it be that-------- no of course not, or he would have told us!

 

[Sir Loin]

Is it the pasture or the flies?

The unkempt pasture (allowing flowers and weeds to grow) is the cause of pinkeye and the flies are what spread it from animal to animal.
Your saw grass is a good example. We call it sage grass up here.

 

[alftn]

I think eyes can get bad from weed seed, or to tall of grass...But pink eye is a different thing....and yes flies can spread it....

 

[tncattle]

Pasture-based farming
CIAS is strengthening the grass-based farming industry in Wisconsin through a special USDA-CSREES grant: Strengthening Wisconsin's Pasture-Based Farming Industry Through Directed Research.

http://www.cias.wisc.edu/pasture.php
Hummmmm! A USDA GRANT! ($$$$$$$$)
Could it be that-------- no of course not, or he would have told us![/quote

I thought Salatin was in Virginia?

 

[Sir Loin]

I think eyes can get bad from weed seed, or to tall of grass...But pink eye is a different thing....and yes flies can spread it....

OK, we agree that flies spread it! Case closed on that one.
If the majority of pinkeye is not caused by pasture conditions, then what is the main cause?

As far as I know pinkeye can be either a virus or a bacterium.
It starts with an injury to the eye and/or foreign matter in the eye. And the most common place for an eye injury (poked) or to get foreign matter (seeds pollen Etc) is while grazing, as most of a cows time is spent grazing.

The next best place for them to contract pinkeye is while eating round hay bales that have been placed on their side and eaten from the center (tunneling) or tunneling from the sides.
And any hay bunker that puts the hay above the cows head.

Re:

I thought Salatin was in Virginia?

True! You are correct, but you don't win anything!
But the last time I checked Virginia was still in the US and we are talking about a US (DA) grant.

SL

 

[skyline]

Sir Loin -

No disrespect intended, but I find it ironic that you disrepect Joel Salatin up one side and down the other on this thread for his marketing efforts and success, yet you are obviously benefitting from one of the most successful marketing campaigns ever put together in the ag business (CAB). All businesses rely upon marketing - including Salatin and the producers who are participating in the CAB program. It seems to me that Salatin is very good at marketing, just like the CAB folks are.