Jim Lents

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farmguy

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Now that I am retired I am doing some reading. I see that Jim Lents has a book on line breeding Herefords. I would like to see the EPDs and info on some of his animals. I cannot get a reg. numbers or names to put into the AHA website. Does he have a website? Any ideas on how to get his book? thanks farmguy
 
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farmguy

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I see the web site is not completed yet, I will keep an eye on it. Is there an older website or another source of names or numbers but thanks for the info, farmguy
 

Hollis

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I don't believe he participate''s in Tpr.

Functional cattle. Small frame, fertile
 

Aaron

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Carlos F.":8n9bik0u said:
google "Basics of Line Breeding, Jim Lents"
It's a You Tube video

I'd have no end of udder problems if those cows were here. Even my worst uddered cows aren't that bad.
 

Stanford777

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I love how everyone on here loves to bash on someone else's stock. The anxiety 4 herfs, the Brahma bull a few posts away. No one said u had to use them, but respect what the man has done. Cattle intensely linebred for well over a hundred years, he is committed and believes in what he does, and apparently it works for him because if it didn't, he wouldn't still be in business. Everyone wants consistency, I guarantee those animals will breed on more consistently than most of the cattle owned by anyone on this forum. You don't have to love em, but respect the time, effort, and commitment the man made to get em that way. I'm now getting off my soapbox.
 

Nesikep

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Aaron":2jpx7a0v said:
Carlos F.":2jpx7a0v said:
google "Basics of Line Breeding, Jim Lents"
It's a You Tube video

I'd have no end of udder problems if those cows were here. Even my worst uddered cows aren't that bad.
I gotta agree.. The cattle look great when you look across their backs, but udders are poor.. well.. dare I say "classic" Herf udders?

Stanford777":2jpx7a0v said:
I love how everyone on here loves to bash on someone else's stock. The anxiety 4 herfs, the Brahma bull a few posts away. No one said u had to use them, but respect what the man has done. Cattle intensely linebred for well over a hundred years, he is committed and believes in what he does, and apparently it works for him because if it didn't, he wouldn't still be in business. Everyone wants consistency, I guarantee those animals will breed on more consistently than most of the cattle owned by anyone on this forum. You don't have to love em, but respect the time, effort, and commitment the man made to get em that way. I'm now getting off my soapbox.

I absolutely do respect the dedication he's put into his herd, and there are some great parts to it..As I said, they look great across the back. However, I would not buy a bull from him no way, no how... (well, perhaps for terminal purposes)... For maternal traits, the udder is the #1 thing I look for, and I'm not going to get a bull that's deliberately linebred to be prepotent, from a herd that evidently doesn't have my top requirement in mind.. That would basically guarantee that all his daughters will have udders like you see in that video.. Just not for me.

Now it's just a matter of personal esthetics and not a productive issue, but I'm not a fan of the head shape.
 

WalnutCrest

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I'm asking a couple of questions here, and I have no idea the answer ...

If the mature cattle look good after having grown up nursing off these "bad" udders, is it possible the look of the udder is less important than results produced by the udder?

If the udders are really less functional (i.e., your visual assessment really does describe reality), possibly are their other traits that were simultaneously (and possibly very unintentionally) selected for that (more than?) compensate for the udder? If so, are any of these other traits worth having in your herd?
 

Stanford777

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The video shows flaccid udders on mature cows, I would like to see those udders when those ladies valve and they're full. A bull bred that tight would definitely throw a genetic pop into some Angus or brangus commercial females
 

KNERSIE

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Anyone not seeing the genetic value in the Lents cattle still has a lot to learn, whether you agree with him or not. Udders can be fixed, fixing doability in the greater hereford population will be a much tougher task.
 

Aaron

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KNERSIE":2bm8wzhf said:
Udders can be fixed.

Tell that to a commercial cowmen who is looking for a bull to make a cowherd around. First question would be, so you are trying to sell me a fixer-upper bull? 2nd question, has the breed not advanced at all since 1975? Bad udders then and, apparently, bad udders now.

Maybe you have 30 year old pickup with a leaky gas tank and two flat tires that you want new price for as well?

Doability is not a problem in the Hereford breed. Certainly not in the Horned Herefords at least.

Making excuses for crap in the breed and then they wonder why we aren't #1. Too many purebred guys live in breeder lala land.
 

Stocker Steve

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Read the book. Admire the dedication.
Herd that Jim has a small group of disciples getting line breeding tips and buying bulls.
Saw a disciple herd. Cows were functional. Owner claimed to be making a fortune in grass fed beef.
Would be willing to try that kind on big black power cows.
Not sure they would be ideal here, since we have too much forage. :nod:
 

Nesikep

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I am certain there are a good deal of benefits to his bulls, but the udders are a deal-breaker for me... I've worked too hard to get where I am.
What I am wondering is how they would be for terminal sires... would the small frame size be mitigated by great heterosis? Depending on your cows you'd probably get a uniform calf crop
 

W.B.

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Yes udders can be fixed. Like most inferior trAits it requires two generations of intense selection pressure. And some sorting.
 

Nesikep

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I just have to agree with Aaron.. looking for a maternal bull, you don't want one that has been linebred extensively with bad udders throughout the herd... It's a shame they don't look better, it really detracts from everything else

Here.. Not my cow (for a change).. Champion Gelbvieh dam and daughter... I'd much rather have a herd of them
 

Hollis

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All u guys bashing udders need to understand there is a difference between functional and desirable.

I ask this question.
If those cows produce to 10 yr old without help and wean a good calf is it a problem? Or just eyesore for u.
 

Stanford777

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My observing my herd I have one cow with a very undesirable udder actually worse than anything on that video, but she weans calves around 600 in close to six months with very little creep. So she's got an eyesore of a bag, she raises a beauty of a calf
 

SPH

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The udders aren't what you'd consider ideal but everyone has their own definition of what they consider "functional" so I think what 1 guy feels is a poor udder another guy might think it's still functional and will deal with it as long as they raise a good calf. We have a couple cows that have a big teat at birth that occasionally may have to milk it out but once the calf starts nursing it's no longer a problem and those cows are performing too well to just cull them based off a less than ideal udder when they still wean a good calf.

Everyone has to make choices based on their environment and management practices. I think the small frame size of those cattle is a reason we'd never use them but that isn't to say that in someone else's operation they could be functional genetics for them. Our ideal frame size for our cows are 5-6 frame so a 2 or 3 frame bull would be way too moderate for us. Also not a fan of 7 frame cattle either, they can be hard do'ers here.

Here's an example of what we use when we do our udder scores: http://www.hereford.org/member-services ... er-scores/ The first number would be udder suspension and 2nd number teat score. Personally we would like to have cows that were all like the examples of 55, 74, or 77 kind of udders but realistically we have a few that don't fall in that range but I would still consider them to have functional udders.
 

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