Jealous Bull?

[TxCoUnTrYbOy]

It seems that my bull has been jealous since the heifer came in. Anyone ever see this before? Since the heifer came in, he tries to push people a little. Not attacking, but nudging at them. The thing that made me think he is jealous is yesterday I had both of them tyed up side by side and I was in the middle. I could stand there and not do anything and he was fine. As soon as I started to pet the heifer he would try to nudge my leg. With me, when he starts nudging all I have to do is give a little slap on the ear and he backs off. With others, if they slap his ear he starts pushing more and more. How can I break this of him? When I got my bull everyone in my chapter kept saying its a bull and it will do nothing but hurt people, and if he is playing like this those people are going to start saying he is mean and say he needs to go. I want to break him of this habit before it gets out of control. What should I do.

Remember, he is a Brahman so a good pop on the nose isnt the best option.

 

[anghere]

See this thread.

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12506

 

[jkwilson]

How can I break this of him?

He's a bull. He doesn't want you taking his heifer away from him, which is how he sees it when you are messing with her and he's tied. You aren't going to break him of being a bull unless you cut him. I would never strike a bull in the head, because eventually he will hit back, and I guarantee he can hit harder than you can.

 

[Ryan]

I would never strike a bull in the head, because eventually he will hit back, and I guarantee he can hit harder than you can.

All of our bulls are halter broken. One of the ways we teach them stop moving, or just stop doing whatever it is that they are doing is to give them a pop on the nose. It doesnt hurt them any, but it does teach them that it means to stop. If you start doing this to them when they are younger it is more effective.

However, if by "striking a bull in the head" you mean wacking him hard across the forehead, then I agree. That is a big No No. Have had bad experiences with that.

TxCoUnTrYbOy, these questions are not meant to be rude if they sound that way. I only ask them so I can get a better understanding of the animal and his attitude, that way I can do a better job of trying to help you out.
Have you tried a light pop on the nose? If so, what did he do? If not, why not? What does being a Brahman have to do with his attitude towards a light pop on the nose?

Ryan

 

[TxCoUnTrYbOy]

I havent tried a pop on the nose. I have always been told that Brahmans are much more sensitive than other animals and when you start popping them on the nose they get mad and hit back. People have always told me never hit a Brahman on the nose.

 

[Ryan]

Your sources are probably from people that have Brahman experiences. If you've been told that by Brahman people then you are doing good by not popping him. That's definantly a risk not worth taking.

Another suggestion is that you might try to tie them up in separate spots. You said that if you are between them petting the heifer the bull could nudge you. Try putting the bull 15 or 20 feet away and maybe facing a different direction. We do this with our young heifers that have been together for a while. They can see each other, but they are far enough away that it makes a difference. After a few days they understand that everything is okay, and it is alright to be away from their buddy. If you don't see much progress with this, the next step would be to tie them up where they can't see each other. If it comes to this step, more time and patience is usually required.

Good luck. But if he starts getting too aggressive with you I hope you'll follow the advice given in the thread posted above by anghere.

Ryan

 

[SF]

Make sure your bull knows who the boss is. He needs to know this at all times. Do not allow inexperienced people around your bull or any of your other show cattle.

It is kind of like when you are breaking one to lead. If they are never allowed to get away from you it is much easier than if they have. Once they have gotten away, they know that if they pull hard enough, they just may get loose.

Once this bull gets you scared, he is in charge, and it may become impossible for you to manage him as a show bull. Do you have a nose ring in him yet? In my opinion any bull that is going to be handled as a show bull or on a halter after they are past a year old, should have a ring in their nose. This just provides you with a little more leverage.

Don't get the wrong idea from anything I'm saying here when it comes to handling your bull. Don't try to man handle him. This will meet failure. He is bigger and if you get into a contest of muscle, he will win and you will lose. Keep him gentle and he should be okay. Stay on guard with him at all times. He is still a bull.

 

[Ryan]

we dont put permanent nose rings in have heard of to many freak accidents. knew one breeder had to have a bull put down as the ring got hung on a steel post bull tore the end of his nose out and went plum crazy.

we feal its better to use the temporary nose leads. a lot of people use the permanent ones cause they think its classy just like ear rings. i would hate to loose a bull just because i thought something looked good. and for the record i dont think that was what the above poster was infering to.

We use permanent nose rings on our bulls. Have had/seen too many instances where the temporary one comes out, and when people have gotten hurt trying to put in the temp. nose ring. Have much more control with the permanent ones. However, when the bull is done showing and goes to pasture for breeding we remove the nose ring

there is one other reason i dont beleive in the permanent rings it might give the wife an idea if she was to see it in use.

best reason i've ever seen to not use a permanent ring

Ryan

 

[Hill 70]

We had a Purebred Red Angus heifer (a granddaughter of Forster Chief 7182, by a home raised bull)that had an excellent temperment as a calf and then one day as a yearling heifer (she was one of our show heifers) she just snapped. She walked up slowly to my brother and usually she would come over and you could scratch her back or scratch behind her ears, and thats what he thought she was doing, so he put his hand out and she put him up against the fence and fed him a couple in the ribs. then to make matters worse, she learned how to get off te halter, so we tried a Holstein halter, and just recently she learned how to get out of those. And you can't even tell when she is going o do it either, she'll move up a little when she's on the halter and give you a playful nudge, and feed ya one in the ribs.

 

[Ryan]

sounds like she needs to grow some wheels, or at the very least not at the end of a lead rope. Show heifer feedin' ya one in the ribs gets old real fast.

Ryan

 

[Beefy]

i say punch him in the nose.
girls are designed to get all of our attention anyway. thats just a fact of a life. *sigh*

 

[TxCoUnTrYbOy]

He has a permanent nose ring in. Required to show. I try to avoid using it so he doesnt learn to get scared any time I come near it, but once in a while I make sure he remember I am in charge. The reason I think he is just trying to play is this. When he starts trying to push, he knows he can do that for a few minutes before I start to get mad. When I start getting mad, I start walking towards him and he will back up and then do what he is supposed to. The only time I have trouble with him is when he is outside of his pen not on a halter (putting him outside for the day/inside for the night) or the exception when they were tyed up next to each other, but he would only try to push when I gave the heifer attention.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

He has a permanent nose ring in. Required to show. I try to avoid using it so he doesnt learn to get scared any time I come near it, but once in a while I make sure he remember I am in charge. The reason I think he is just trying to play is this. When he starts trying to push, he knows he can do that for a few minutes before I start to get mad. When I start getting mad, I start walking towards him and he will back up and then do what he is supposed to. The only time I have trouble with him is when he is outside of his pen not on a halter (putting him outside for the day/inside for the night) or the exception when they were tyed up next to each other, but he would only try to push when I gave the heifer attention.

We do just the opposite. In the barn during the day & out at night. Why would you put them in at night???
The whole purpose for us is to keep them out of the sun & away from the bugs during the day. Night is cooler & no sun.
When you "tie" them. Are they on a loose rope?? They should be tied with their head pulled up high, like the way they should hold their head in the ring. They will not be "nuzzling" you when they are tied.
He shouldn't be allowed to "push" for a few minutes before you "get mad". An unfavorable movement should be corrected immediately, no delay. If he/she can get away with something for 1 minute, they will soon expect to do it 2 minutes, than 3, etc. Plus, if is is bad behavior - it's bad behavior. Correct IMMEDIATELY or they will never learn why you are correcting them.
Immediate correction for bad behavior - immediate reward for good behavior. I feel this is the best way to train ANYTHING - cattle, dogs, kids :shock:

 

[Ryan]

Great advice Jeanne, especially the immediate corrections of bad behaviors.

Ryan

 

[TxCoUnTrYbOy]

Ill usually tie them up high for a while, or if Im just making a quick trip Ill tie them kind of loose while I get in and clean pens. The reason I dont keep him out at night is this. My schools ag farm is right in the middle of the city (patch of 60 acres surrounded by apartments, office buildings, etc), not a good part of the city either. It is not safe to leave him out and know someone isnt going to come onto the property and mess with things. All too often things dissappear, get broken, and Id rather not risk leaving my animal which has cost me thousands of dollars to be messed with.

I dont wait anymore. He knows he shouldnt be trying to push. As soon as he pushes, he will squint his eyes because he knows he is going to get slapped, even before I slap him.

 

[branxchar&charx]

i think he was just playing when he did that. my maine heifer use to do that all the time to me. i knew her and knew what to expect. spending several hours everyday for almost two years i knew what to expect. i still wouldnt let him do it and my heifer knew not to do it very often either.