https://consoles-east.dvauction.com/events/229516/bidder? Check out the prices on the right side of the page. Lot 52, homo black and polled, brought $12k.
J & N Ranch Black Herefords - Annual Bull Sale
- Thread starter Warren Allison
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And Lot 110 brought 14,500.00!!! 10 months old.
CowboyRam
Well-known member
I looked at their bulls last year, and had a couple that I would have been interested in. Because of the distance decided not to bid; they went higher than I wanted to spend. I ended up buying some some bulls from Johansen out of Castle Dale Utah. Brock is an upstanding guy; I would buy from him again. Part of the reason I bought from him was that all his bulls are PAP tested for high elevation. I am curious to see how my calves are going to look this spring.
www.jobulls.com
www.jobulls.com
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Yeah, they probably don't worry much about that in the flatland of Kansas. I had never heard of it down here either, til I started reading CT. I noticed at the sale in Santa Teresa ,.New Mexico, they announced the elevation of the ranch they came from on every group that enters the ring.
We are seeing more and more Black Herefords making their way down here in the SE. I had a fellow that got me to build him a herd of red Angus and some red Brangus, because he wanted to use Black Hereford bulls on them and get "reverse black baldies" he called them. About a year and a half ago...might be 2 years ago, I don't remember, he bought 4 of the 7 registered red Charolais 3-n-1's I found. They all had heifer calves and were bred back to same AI bull for heifer calves. He bred those cows to his Black Hereford, and is about to breed the heifers they had on them to him as well. He figures on getting a little bigger and a lot faster growing black baldies off of those cows. Just hard to find them right now, but they are getting more plentiful than they were a year ago. Last time I saw him he said he might get some Black Hereford cows and breed them to a red Char.
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CowboyRam
Well-known member
In my conversation with Brock I learned that he did buy a few bred heifers from J&N. I think he said he had about three head. Not one single heifer stayed in his herd; probably due to the elevation. I can't remember if he said they got brisket disease, or if they just didn't breed back. They summer their cows at 10,000 ft; he showed me their winter pasture. Because of all the cliffs around there he needs very little fencing. I was there in late May and I asked what do your cows eat. I thought the grass was sparce in the Red Desert, that was even worse.
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What is the elevation at your place, @CowboyRam ? Does brisket disease always develop in flat land cattle moved to the mountains, or is it just highly probable?
CowboyRam
Well-known member
It is about 7000 feet where I summer on the desert. Riverton is at about 4900 feet. I can't really answer if brisket disease effect all flat land cattle, but I do think they have a higher risk of getting it.
I found this. Maybe this will help answer some of your questions.
GoWyo
Well-known member
Some will develop brisket disease and some will be fine. Some from generations of high elevation cattle will even develop it. Dr. Holt says they are still sorting through over a million genetic markers trying to narrow it down. Really depends on each animal's cardiopulmonary response to reduced oxygen as elevation goes up. PAP testing below 5000 feet can find the real bad ones, but really need to get to around 6,500 feet to find most of the rest of them. According to Dr. Holt, the 6500 foot level is where he sees a major break in the cattle that can handle it and the ones that can't. I dunno -- have had bulls that pedigree says they should PAP well and they don't and bulls that should have failed and had a good PAP. It's a weird deal. Best thing is to test at elevation to find the ones that have the best chances.
I see a number of Angus bulls being listed in semen catalogs with a very good PAP EPD, but they have no data to back it up and their sire and dam have no data to back it up, so I have no idea where their EPD score is coming from and looks bogus to me. They need to be tested to start proving them.
I see a number of Angus bulls being listed in semen catalogs with a very good PAP EPD, but they have no data to back it up and their sire and dam have no data to back it up, so I have no idea where their EPD score is coming from and looks bogus to me. They need to be tested to start proving them.
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@GoWyo and @CowboyRam , thanks for the responses. Brisket disease is something new to me, and I have never experienced it. I guess even in the mountains of north GA, north Ala, NC and Tenn, elevations may not be high enough to pose a problem. I first became aware of it watching the Saint Teresa, NM sales online, and I messaged the person that takes online bidding, and asked her why the auctioneer was announcing the elevation of the ranch for the cattle in the pen each time. Most of the buyers are feedlot operators, primarily from Texas, I wonder if it works both ways...if cattle from high elevations experience difficulty in low-elevation areas? When y'all get one that develops that condition, is there a treatment or medication for it. Or you just move them down to low country?
GoWyo
Well-known member
All you can do is go down in elevation, but by the time they show any signs of it, the damage to their heart is irreversible. The heart gets enlarged -- it is basically congestive heart failure.
Travlr
Well-known member
It's interesting how you were talking just recently (maybe the last three months or so?) about red Charolaise as though it was something you were just recently learning about and then fascinated by... and here you are saying that you've been buying them intentionally for people 2 years ago.
Travlr
Well-known member
There's a genetic factor, so there would have to be flat land cattle with the ability to go to altitude. They'd have to be tested or it could get expensive in a hurry.
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I guess I always knew about them., but go to really looking for info and talking to people, etc, when he wanted to try some. And yeah I mention it sometimes on here when someone posts about how they really like red cattle. Or talk about the "dock" for Charolais and dilute Charolais cattle. And yeah, I guess it might seem like to me there are more and more lately, but you know how it is, for-instance, if you buy an odd colored vehicle, like an olive green F-150 or something? You had never noticed there was such a thing, and you buy it, then suddenly it seems like you see them everywhere? I might have run up on them more than I thought I had in the past....just assumed I was seeing red Angus or red Simmental or Limousin or something? I never paid that much attention to red cattle anywhere before then, really. I am sorry I don't recall the exact date I bought those 7, but I guess I can look it up for you if it is that important. Seems like those heifer calves were about 2 or 3 months old, and the man and Clay both that got them, are going to breed them for the 1st time a little later on, to have them calve about Jan or Feb next year, so I am thinking it was in '23?
CCCowman
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You did well!!!! Brock has some really good quality animals! The flat out produce!!
CCCowman
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Come up to Blountville, Tn April 5th. We have 74 lots. Sure they'll be something in there for ya!!
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Yeah, I have been seeing that on FB. Hope y'all do as good as they did at the J & N sale Saturday. I don't need anything, but would like to go up there and see it if I can.
CowboyRam
Well-known member
He is one stand up guy. One of the bulls I bought from him last year died not long after I got him. He replaced him now questions asked. I had to go get him because he didn't have time to bring him to me. I got to see part of his operation. I would buy from him again.
Travlr
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Do you know why the bull died? Altitude?
CowboyRam
Well-known member
No I don't, I don't think it was due to altitude.
CCCowman
Well-known member
We'll be there Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Cattle have to be there by noon on Friday. Come up any day you can. We'll have some good grub Friday night and talk some cattle. Look me up. Like to shake hands with a legend!!
