I've been losing money

[pdfangus]

We fatten all of our feeder cattle on corn silage, corn, and wet corn distillers. Since it is all some form of corn and corn is a grass wouldn't that "technically" make them grass fed? lol I mean corn is a grain but its also a seed and grass has seeds also and corn is in the grass family so technically I am missing out on marketting my beef as grass fed.

You're baffling yourself with your own BS.

I'm sorry that some people took my post seriously. It was meant as a joke to lighten the mood. We are all in the cattle industry and we all serve different parts of the industry. Maybe we should take the effort we put forth argueing with eachother and put it towards educating consumers. Just a thought since last time I checked 2% of the U.S. population farms anymore. That is a lot of people that are removed from the farm. Once they are a generation or two removed from the farm where are they going to get their information from? We are a minority. The customer is always right so rather than call them stupid (even though they might be dumber than a box of rocks) on how they make decisions try to explain to them what you do and relate to them. People don't base their decisions on facts and truths anymore, they base it off from feelings and emotions. That is how HSUS and PETA and such gain so much publicity and suppport is because they play off people's emotions that we abuse our animals and are evil and mean people. Mothers are who we need to be educating also because they are the ones that make the decisions on what they feed to their family. Mothers are very emotional and protective of their family. If they have any doubts about the safety of what they are feeding to their family they won't feed it. Just some things to think about and my two cents worth. :2cents:

P.S. Corn or Maize (if we are goin with its scientific name) is a member of the grass family.
Also we do not nor ever will market our corn fed beef as grass fed.

you are right....
part of our work at the conservation district is education. we do field days where we educate every third grade student in the public schools in both our counties....
we also have a set of days were we do programs for every sixth grade student in the two counties.

I think we actually educate more parents than kids. som of the parents are just standing there slack jawed becase they don't know the stuff we are teaching their kids.

a vast majority of the united states population has absolutely no knowledge or contact with any form of agriculture any more....

 

[cmf1]

Yep,
There's just that big food machine thingy that squeezes burgers out behind the drive-thru window.

 

[Massey135]

We fatten all of our feeder cattle on corn silage, corn, and wet corn distillers. Since it is all some form of corn and corn is a grass wouldn't that "technically" make them grass fed? lol I mean corn is a grain but its also a seed and grass has seeds also and corn is in the grass family so technically I am missing out on marketting my beef as grass fed.

see...this is the kind of rationalization of behavior that "technically" causes the need for standards and inspectors.....

would it not be just as easy to market it as corn fed and try to carve out your own niche instead of trying to infringe upon another one.?

I know nothing about the "grass fed" arena but I do have a question. If the cattle are not allowed to consume the grass and "head" once it seeds.... Under the grass fed program, do you have to take the cattle off the land when the spring grasses go to seed or when common bermuda for example, heads? What about Johnson grass or clover or wheat or...

 

[iowafarmer]

We fatten all of our feeder cattle on corn silage, corn, and wet corn distillers. Since it is all some form of corn and corn is a grass wouldn't that "technically" make them grass fed? lol I mean corn is a grain but its also a seed and grass has seeds also and corn is in the grass family so technically I am missing out on marketting my beef as grass fed.

see...this is the kind of rationalization of behavior that "technically" causes the need for standards and inspectors.....

would it not be just as easy to market it as corn fed and try to carve out your own niche instead of trying to infringe upon another one.?

I know nothing about the "grass fed" arena but I do have a question. If the cattle are not allowed to consume the grass and "head" once it seeds.... Under the grass fed program, do you have to take the cattle off the land when the spring grasses go to seed or when common bermuda for example, heads? What about Johnson grass or clover or wheat or...

As far as I know and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. Cattle that are grass fed are allowed to consume the "head" of grass once it seeds as it is not considered a grain. So no, you would not have to remove the cattle from the land. Sorry to confuse you in my earlier post I was just being a smart @ss on the whole grain and grass fed issue.

 

[Massey135]

I thought it was said corn IS a grass and that the head IS a grain??

 

[regolith]

Now you're being the smart-arse MF
(I *am* presuming that you know the answers to your questions so apologies if you are asking in sincerity).

TB is covering this subject in another thread with the level of starch/fibre as the indicator of what type of feed we're talking about.
Let's say that corn is a grass. That is the correct use of the word according to some scientific dictionary somewhere. Does the consumer know the difference between grass and corn? Does the consumer know the difference between shelled corn off the cob and a grass plant that's run to seed?
If the answer to both is no, then I dare say you could sell that consumer grain-finished beef and call it grassfed.

 

[TexasBred]

Now you're being the smart-arse MF
(I *am* presuming that you know the answers to your questions so apologies if you are asking in sincerity).

TB is covering this subject in another thread with the level of starch/fibre as the indicator of what type of feed we're talking about.
Let's say that corn is a grass. That is the correct use of the word according to some scientific dictionary somewhere. Does the consumer know the difference between grass and corn? Does the consumer know the difference between shelled corn off the cob and a grass plant that's run to seed?
If the answer to both is no, then I dare say you could sell that consumer grain-finished beef and call it grassfed.

ahhhh...the power of suggestion. ;-)

actually corn is a grass and I suppose you could graze it before it begin to develop ears as well as cut it into silage if feeding it that way would benefit you but again...do it before the grain develops. There in lies the problem with the grass fed program and that is energy shortage....and the older the grass the lower the nutrient levels and he reason it takes so long to grow off a steer for slaughter and that's expensive.

 

[Massey135]

Now you're being the smart-arse MF
(I *am* presuming that you know the answers to your questions so apologies if you are asking in sincerity).

TB is covering this subject in another thread with the level of starch/fibre as the indicator of what type of feed we're talking about.
Let's say that corn is a grass. That is the correct use of the word according to some scientific dictionary somewhere. Does the consumer know the difference between grass and corn? Does the consumer know the difference between shelled corn off the cob and a grass plant that's run to seed?
If the answer to both is no, then I dare say you could sell that consumer grain-finished beef and call it grassfed.

I would contend the consumer knows no more than the connotations associated w/ the modern, trendy, healthy food, green agenda. The propaganda suggests grass fed beef uses less energy and is more eco friendly. Proponents can claim "taste" all they want, but everyone really knows they're not serving grass fed at III Forks. But you bet ya and the pretentious Stephan Pyles in Downtown (Dallas) the first word on the steak menu is "Grass Fed" :roll: (Despite the yuppies the place is excellent! If you get a chance to go, I highly suggest it- I get seafood)
In doing a search on grains, I find that maize, rice, wheat, barley, sorghum, millet, oats, rye, and a hybrid of wheat and rye- Triticale, are all grasses!(members of the monocot family Poaceae, also known as Gramineae) :shock: In reading this, IMO, it totally voids the grass fed movement of any validity as the method they oppose, is grass fed as well!

 

[Jogeephus]

Now you're being the smart-arse MF
(I *am* presuming that you know the answers to your questions so apologies if you are asking in sincerity).

TB is covering this subject in another thread with the level of starch/fibre as the indicator of what type of feed we're talking about.
Let's say that corn is a grass. That is the correct use of the word according to some scientific dictionary somewhere. Does the consumer know the difference between grass and corn? Does the consumer know the difference between shelled corn off the cob and a grass plant that's run to seed?
If the answer to both is no, then I dare say you could sell that consumer grain-finished beef and call it grassfed.

I would contend the consumer knows no more than the connotations associated w/ the modern, trendy, healthy food, green agenda. The propaganda suggests grass fed beef uses less energy and is more eco friendly. Proponents can claim "taste" all they want, but everyone really knows they're not serving grass fed at III Forks. But you bet ya and the pretentious Stephan Pyles in Downtown (Dallas) the first word on the steak menu is "Grass Fed" :roll: (Despite the yuppies the place is excellent! If you get a chance to go, I highly suggest it- I get seafood)
In doing a search on grains, I find that maize, rice, wheat, barley, sorghum, millet, oats, rye, and a hybrid of wheat and rye- Triticale, are all grasses!(members of the monocot family Poaceae, also known as Gramineae) :shock: In reading this, IMO, it totally voids the grass fed movement of any validity as the method they oppose, is grass fed as well!

I'm glad you clarified that cause I was beginning to wonder if my botany courses had gone to waste. And yes I suffered through organic as well but lets not even get started talking about that subject. But you neglected to mention that beets are now considered a grass. When did they make this change in the binomiall nomenclature? After nearly 260 years, I bet Linnaeus is rolling over in his grave. And while we are on the subject, how can they claim it is friendlier on the environment when - to be compliant - one would have to mow said grasses to prevent seed head production. Would this not enlarge your carbon footprint and cause the polar ice caps to melt hence killing poor defenseless polar bears and walruses. And what will become of the harp seals? I've grazed a lot of rye and I find this to be quite a stretch of the imaginination to think one could truly do this without either wasting a lot of good forage or bending the rules to suit ones agenda. Or is this just something like shatting in your pants. You just don't talk about it and pretend like it didn't happen. Of course I've always been told that everyone has done this and the one who says he hasn't is just a liar. But that's neither here nor there. What I truly wonder about is how many children will miss points on their SAT or even the MCATs when they are asked what genus corn or beets are found in. But then again, dumbing down seems to be the trend.

 

[cypressfarms]

To this thread an update:

Still kicking along with nursing homes and individuals. The local market made a deal with me and they will butcher, and package meat from my farm and label it "locally raised beef" (starting off on a limited basis). If it works, they'll buy more - ofcourse, because he is planning on charging a small premium. The good thing is the owner has another market and connections all around with stores. I can't really hold much more moma cows on my acreage, but I could selectively buy small weanling calves from other cattlemen around my area and change my "business model" if needed.

I've received pm's from members doing the same type operation as myself. It's good to hear that us "little guys/gals" can provide something that the big boys cant!

 

[cmf1]

If that story about the "meat glue" from the HEALTH AND NUTRITION BOARD gets big media play you might have to buy more land.

 

[ohiosteve]

I know nothing about the "grass fed" arena but I do have a question. If the cattle are not allowed to consume the grass and "head" once it seeds.... Under the grass fed program, do you have to take the cattle off the land when the spring grasses go to seed or when common bermuda for example, heads? What about Johnson grass or clover or wheat or...

The key to a successfull grass fed operation is a properly functioning rumen. The acidity must be kept low in order for the microorganisms in the rumen to function properly and break down the grasses and forage so the animal can utilize the nutrients. If too much grain is introduced into the rumen the acidity becomes too high and the organisms do not function and cannot break down the grasses and the animal recieves almost no nutritional benefit from the grass. The small amount of grain and seeds that naturally occur in a pasture are not enough to raise the acidity in the rumen enough to keep the organisms from functioning. I am not a tree hugger, nor do I have a green agenda. I choose not to feed grain to my cattle because I have learned I can raise healthy cattle in excellent condition on grass and forage only and I can also fetch a premium for my end product. I encourage any other small producer to try the same!

 

[TexasBred]

If your cattle get nothing but grass and hay microbial populations should never be a problem as rumen ph would vary very little. As for the "premium for my beef", I assume you're selling processed beef rather than live cattle.

 

[ohiosteve]

Actually up until this year I have been selling freezer beef as I was buying feeder calves, but I am shifting my focus now to a cow calf operation and plan on selling all my calves in the fall with the exception of any heifers I keep. I realize I will not get any grass fed premium for my calves and in fact will be docked for my longhorn cross calves. However my overhead and operating costs are very low so I should be able to continue growing and improving my herd each year. At least that's my plan for now, It could change at any time!

 

[TexasBred]

Actually up until this year I have been selling freezer beef as I was buying feeder calves, but I am shifting my focus now to a cow calf operation and plan on selling all my calves in the fall with the exception of any heifers I keep. I realize I will not get any grass fed premium for my calves and in fact will be docked for my longhorn cross calves. However my overhead and operating costs are very low so I should be able to continue growing and improving my herd each year. At least that's my plan for now, It could change at any time!

Go for it....you can make it work. ;-)

 

[Tim/South]

About 5 years ago my son asked if we could fatten up a steer and sell it to one of his friends.
We did and he immediately asked us to get another one ready.
Word spread and we kept 4 or 5 on feed at a time.
The butcher asked how we got them so fat?
I was buying feed in the large bulk bags.
The feed blend is 30% soy hulls, 30% peanut hulls and 60% corn gluten.
The butcher asked me if we were selling them as grass fed? He said the hulls and gluten did not contain grain and we should charge more.
I have since quit fattening any for sale. People do not understand "hanging weight" but the biggest reason is after I looked at the books I was not really making much over what I would get if run through the sale.
That is my fault for not charging enough in the beginning.

Thee is a huge market for "farm raised" anything now days.
It has become a religion to some.

Why don't you just raise your prices?

I considered that. Our profit margin came from cutting out all the middle men.
We grazed until 750, then put them on feed.
Being a small family farm we could not lock in on feed prices. Our blend went from 135.00 per ton (low) to 245.00 (high).
When we said we would have to increase the price to continue, rumors began that we were price gouging and becoming "uppity".
I offered one guy, the original friend, an alternative.
I told him to buy a yearling and keep him here. I would graze it for $10 a month. when he got ready to finish it he could buy the feed, use one of our feeders on a 2 acre pasture area, all for the same $10 per month.
He declined.

 

[Lawson Farms]

I've got (3) steers for freezer beef marketed on craigslist. so far I've sold one and have an order for 1/2 of the 2nd steer. I tell everyone that they have plenty of pasture, and plenty of hay we grow on the farm. They are also suplemented with a corn silage ration. We grow and harvest the silage, but we add some grain co-products (hulls, CS meal, Dist Grains, etc). Craziest comment was froma guy about the corn silage. Was it genetically modified? I said yes, it was roundup ready corn. Then he went off on how GMO plants were going to kill us all. I wished him the best on growing his own beef.

 

[inbredredneck]

I've got (3) steers for freezer beef marketed on craigslist. so far I've sold one and have an order for 1/2 of the 2nd steer. I tell everyone that they have plenty of pasture, and plenty of hay we grow on the farm. They are also suplemented with a corn silage ration. We grow and harvest the silage, but we add some grain co-products (hulls, CS meal, Dist Grains, etc). Craziest comment was froma guy about the corn silage. Was it genetically modified? I said yes, it was roundup ready corn. Then he went off on how GMO plants were going to kill us all. I wished him the best on growing his own beef.

Corn has been genetically modified since 1920.