Is this a diluter heifer?

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hcrancher

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Here's more info and a photo of the dam (the Red Angus cow in the middle facing the camera). It's interesting to note that her next calf, a steer, is standing to her left with it's back to the viewer, and it's a dark charcoal gray with a rat tail. I assume after reading the posts above that it's also a diluter. This calf has a different sire, a different black balancer, shown in the second photo.
lady_06_19_11.jpg

0619110841a.jpg
 

3waycross

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That cow definately has a diluter in the woodpile. She supposed to be registered?

I tried to blow up the picture but it doesn't look like a Rat tail to me? If he is hetero blk that color will shed out over the summer. You sure he is a rat tail?
 

hillsdown

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Judging by the color of the calf I would say it will turn solid black . I also have to ask is the cow registered and is she parentage verified ?
 
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hcrancher

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Yes, the Red Angus dam was registered at the time my brother purchased her from a Red Angus breeder. Unfortunately, I don't know about her parentage verification. The steer has a short tail - I assume it's a rat tail. Sorry it's not a better photo. I live in another state from where the cattle are located, otherwise I'd take another photo.
 

hillsdown

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I zoomed as much as I could and although not a very clear pic it does not look like a rat tail but that he has lost some of the switch. Also that coat looks too slick and thick to be from a rat tail defect, but with such a small pic it is hard to tell.
 

3waycross

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hcrancher":x91c3ouw said:
Yes, the Red Angus dam was registered at the time my brother purchased her from a Red Angus breeder. Unfortunately, I don't know about her parentage verification. The steer has a short tail - I assume it's a rat tail. Sorry it's not a better photo. I live in another state from where the cattle are located, otherwise I'd take another photo.

R U in Colorado and your cattle are in Kansas? or the other way around.
 

dun

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Gelbvieh (yellow cow) aren;t called that for no reason. Seems like most of them carry a diluter gene.
 

3waycross

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dun":2wlvthmu said:
Gelbvieh (yellow cow) aren;t called that for no reason. Seems like most of them carry a diluter gene.

Not to argue with you but most of them don't. I need to call the GV assn today I will try to get you some numbers.
 

dun

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3waycross":1b6uk0j9 said:
dun":1b6uk0j9 said:
Gelbvieh (yellow cow) aren;t called that for no reason. Seems like most of them carry a diluter gene.

Not to argue with you but most of them don't. I need to call the GV assn today I will try to get you some numbers.
My mind is stuck back when they first were imported, they were all yellow back then.
 
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hcrancher

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3waycross: "R U in Colorado and your cattle are in Kansas? or the other way around."

I live in Colorado, and our cattle are in Kansas. My brother manages our family ranch.
 

cow pollinater

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I may be wrong, but I believe that both the Gelbvieh and Red Angus offer some sort of breeding up to registration program so it is possible that there are diluters on both sides.
 

3waycross

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cow pollinater":2she0oj3 said:
I may be wrong, but I believe that both the Gelbvieh and Red Angus offer some sort of breeding up to registration program so it is possible that there are diluters on both sides.

RA does. Gelbvieh had the diluter originally as Dun says. However it is getting more rare as time goes on. I sold a cow with it last year. She threw some incredible calves. I'd like to see the papers on that RA cow. I have looked at the sires pedigree, I don't think it came from him.
 

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3waycross":3cneo4zf said:
cow pollinater":3cneo4zf said:
I may be wrong, but I believe that both the Gelbvieh and Red Angus offer some sort of breeding up to registration program so it is possible that there are diluters on both sides.

RA does. Gelbvieh had the diluter originally as Dun says. However it is getting more rare as time goes on. I sold a cow with it last year. She threw some incredible calves. I'd like to see the papers on that RA cow. I have looked at the sires pedigree, I don't think it came from him.
If the RA is a 1A registration she is pure angus if it is 1B it's the results of breeding up.
 

hillsdown

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dun":2e1itmou said:
3waycross":2e1itmou said:
dun":2e1itmou said:
Gelbvieh (yellow cow) aren;t called that for no reason. Seems like most of them carry a diluter gene.

Not to argue with you but most of them don't. I need to call the GV assn today I will try to get you some numbers.
My mind is stuck back when they first were imported, they were all yellow back then.


Any full blood I have ever seen in Germany was gold and most all GV still carry the diluter gene unless there is hardly any GV left in them. And if they don't, they really should not even be called Gv 's at all . I think it is an embarrassment to the breed to NOT want the gold cattle . I have crossed GV with everything except blk angus and have never ever had a rat tail ;-)
 

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hillsdown":1l3czwu9 said:
Any full blood I have ever seen in Germany was gold and most all GV still carry the diluter gene unless there is hardly any GV left in them. And if they don't, they really should not even be called Gv 's at all . I think it is an embarrassment to the breed to NOT want the gold cattle . I have crossed GV with everything except blk angus and have never ever had a rat tail ;-)
[/quote]

Gelbvieh do not give you rat tails, that is a Simmental trait to my knowledge, but I have never had one in a Gelbvieh nor have I talked to some that has. They do have the dilluter, but it is not true that most all Gekbvieh carry the dilluter. Several original fullbloods were dilluter free like Floto, Sherman, Hotel, Uni, Hochrein and many, many more. Some of the fullbloods like Lech were homozygous dilluter while others, like Belgrad were heterozygous for the trait.

We have nothing but purebred females on our farm and it has been that way for over 15 years and we have raised Gelbvieh starting from a commercial base and working our way up using fullbloods and then purebreds to an all purebred herd. Most of our cows are are 10th generation Gelbvieh since the commercial base and in our herd of 90 cows, we have 50 red cows and only one has the dilluter gene. All of these cows are at a minimum 80% actual Gelbvieh and many are around 85 to 90% Gelbvieh.
 

CKSGelbvieh

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hcrancher":34vdwufq said:
Here's more info and a photo of the dam (the Red Angus cow in the middle facing the camera). It's interesting to note that her next calf, a steer, is standing to her left with it's back to the viewer, and it's a dark charcoal gray with a rat tail. I assume after reading the posts above that it's also a diluter. This calf has a different sire, a different black balancer, shown in the second photo.
lady_06_19_11.jpg

0619110841a.jpg

I would wager that cows has a dilluter coming from a commercial base generations back.
 

CKSGelbvieh

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hillsdown":13lbnhpb said:
80 -90 is not purebred, it is still percentage , that is something that the GV association needs to change .
What percentage should be considered purebred then? No one uses fullbloods any more so if we increase the percentage to say 94%, there would never again be a purebred Gelbvieh registered. Since you are from Canada, I am sure you are familiar with the Canadian Gelbvieh Semen Source Directory. In it, they print the actual percentage Gelbvieh of many of the sires in Canada. The list has bulls like Beretta (88%), Fullback (86%), Bronco (85%), Boo Boo (90%), Louie (87%), etc. Very, very few purebred bulls have a percentage higher than 92% Gelbvieh. Any rule change that leads to less purebreds seems silly to me. IMO, 85+ plus percent is pretty high percentage and justifies being termed a purebred.

What I get a kicked out of is crossing a "purebred" Gelbvieh that is 88% Gelbvieh with a purebred Angus and calling the resulting progeny a 50% Gelbvieh Balancer. It is actually only a 44% Gelbvieh animal. Some people sell 25% Gelbvieh Balancers and those would be typically a 21% Gelbvieh animal. Not sure why the AGA would put a paper on an animal that has 21% Gelbvieh in it but whatever.
 

dun

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Toget to 87% which is what the Red Angus associaiton uses for 1B vs category II (less then 87% angus) takes one more generation to achieve.
 
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