IS THERE A BETTER CROSS ?

[Badlands]

3MR,

That was my mistake. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot that Knop was blowing smoke last year.

After the 1st article, I talked to him, and he ended up improving the 2nd article in terms of more correct references and pencilling things all the way out. Then by the third article, (this one) he went farther off the deep end than ever.

The numbers he pulled out of the air are destined to produce bias.

He used national averages, etc. Not a bad way to go, but he based his heterosis off the averages, and then compared to what his buddies did.

Not a real fair test. Now, I can find dozens of guys who crossbreed and beat the averages and what his buddies did.

Badlands

 

[KMacGinley]

Dexters on Black Herefords.

You fell and hit your head today didn't you ?

How'd you know?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Ever just consider the "Beefmaster" breed? You won't get the "black", but just about everything else you're after.

i hate to say this but if you want black.you can get that with a black beefmaster bull.

better make dam sure he's homozygous black and then cross your fingers before the calf hit's the ground. cause it could be wearing a clown suit ;-)

 

[Brandonm2]

3MR,

That was my mistake. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot that Knop was blowing smoke last year.

After the 1st article, I talked to him, and he ended up improving the 2nd article in terms of more correct references and pencilling things all the way out. Then by the third article, (this one) he went farther off the deep end than ever.

The numbers he pulled out of the air are destined to produce bias.

He used national averages, etc. Not a bad way to go, but he based his heterosis off the averages, and then compared to what his buddies did.

Not a real fair test. Now, I can find dozens of guys who crossbreed and beat the averages and what his buddies did.

Badlands

Exactly, he threw some very realistic hypothetical heterosis numbers out there; then some Angus guys reported that their numbers were better than the hypothetical numbers. Obviously there are herds out there that beat any average. That does not mean that elite cattle crossed with elite cattle from another breed will not still show the same heterosis effects as average cattle. That example proved nothing other than those guys have a really good set of cows whose calves grade. In fact the original article promoting heterosis REALLY did not prove anything either because Knopp was dealing with hypothetical numbers. I have a lot of respect for Mr Knopp but these articles were not his best work.

 

[VanC]

There is no "best cross" for everyone. If it makes you happy and makes you money, stick with it. To each his own.

Mr. C what kind of cattle do you raise. I see you post quite a bit but i asked here while back what people raised never heard from you.

I have no cattle. Why I don't have cattle is a long story that I don't care to go into. Had quite a bit of experience with them years ago, mostly Herefords and Holsteins. Never really got it out of my blood. Sometimes I feel like an outsider, but I enjoy being here.

 

[Wewild]

There is no "best cross" for everyone. If it makes you happy and makes you money, stick with it. To each his own.

Mr. C what kind of cattle do you raise. I see you post quite a bit but i asked here while back what people raised never heard from you.

I have no cattle. Why I don't have cattle is a long story that I don't care to go into. Had quite a bit of experience with them years ago, mostly Herefords and Holsteins. Never really got it out of my blood. Sometimes I feel like an outsider, but I enjoy being here.

I enjoy your posts Van. Keep them coming.

 

[Limomike]

Limiousin bulls on angus cows..............good luck

I'm not saying this is the best cross, but why good luck?
http://www.nalf.org/limflex.html

Mike,Im thinking anyone using Limiousin bulls on good angus cows will have good luck, I have raised brangus for many years,just thinking about slowly going the Limiousin/angus route,just replaced my bulls with Limiousin,going to be intersting to see how they do on these brangus cows.................good luck

Ok haymaker.. I understand why you said that now. yes.. it will be good luck going that route. Let us know how that bull on your brangus does.

 

[novatech]

It seems to me that some breeds like gerts and beefmaster are in fact pretty close to being F1 crosses themselves. Given that wouldn't it make the most use of heterosis to cross to a continental for a terminal calf?

 

[sedrick_hall]

I butchered a Limo x Angus heifer several months ago and she was the best freezer beef I've had in the last 20 years.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Limiousin bulls on angus cows..............good luck

I'm not saying this is the best cross, but why good luck?
http://www.nalf.org/limflex.html

Mike,Im thinking anyone using Limiousin bulls on good angus cows will have good luck, I have raised brangus for many years,just thinking about slowly going the Limiousin/angus route,just replaced my bulls with Limiousin,going to be intersting to see how they do on these brangus cows.................good luck

about any continental bulls do well on brangus. don't see why limm wont . some of the best calves ive seen were charolias sired

 

[Brandonm2]

It seems to me that some breeds like gerts and beefmaster are in fact pretty close to being F1 crosses themselves. Given that wouldn't it make the most use of heterosis to cross to a continental for a terminal calf?

A Gert or a Beefmaster would NOT be an F1; because an F1 is always the first generation of a cross. For example an Angus x a Gelbvieh is an F1 cross and can be registered as a 'Balancer'. A Registered Balancer crossed to a registered Blancer is still a Balancer BUT can not be correctly called a F1. And you are correct British x Brahman x Continental is just about as high a heterosis effect as you can get. The classic cross there is Hereford cows x Brahman bull and then cross the resulting F1 cows to a Charolais bull to produce a F2 generation terminal calf crop. That used to be so common that many cattlemen think that an "F1" IS a Herf x Brahman cow. I had a neighbor that crossed Hereford cows to Santa Gertrudis bulls and then crossed those back to Simmentals.

 

[Brandonm2]

It seems to me that some breeds like gerts and beefmaster are in fact pretty close to being F1 crosses themselves. Given that wouldn't it make the most use of heterosis to cross to a continental for a terminal calf?

A Gert or a Beefmaster would NOT be an F1; because an F1 is always the first generation of a cross. For example an Angus x a Gelbvieh is an F1 cross and can be registered as a 'Balancer'. A Registered Balancer crossed to a registered Blancer is still a Balancer BUT can not be correctly called a F1. And you are correct British x Brahman x Continental is just about as high a heterosis effect as you can get. The classic cross there is Hereford cows x Brahman bull and then cross the resulting F1 cows to a Charolais bull to produce a F2 generation terminal calf crop. That used to be so common that many cattlemen think that an "F1" IS a Herf x Brahman cow. I had a neighbor that crossed Hereford cows to Santa Gertrudis bulls and then crossed those back to Simmentals.

 

[rocket2222]

More calves in most cases means more profit, the longer a cow is productive in your herd, the more you make.
"The Meat Animal Research Center "MARC" in Clay Center Nebraska has proven the longevity of the black baldy is greater that any other cross". {took [stole] this quote off somebodys web site} So if you all really want to make the most profit, there should't be any question as to the best cross.