Is more cattle always better?

[cow pollinater]

There are milestones that you have to watch out for in there as well. Aaron touched on labor expense. If, for example, you can run fifty by yourself but sixty is more than you can handle without help, you're better off with fifty UNLESS you can run eighty or more. You would lose money by hiring help to run a few extra cows unless you were able to run enough beyond what you can handle by yourself to make help profitable.

 

[Bigfoot]

There are milestones that you have to watch out for in there as well. Aaron touched on labor expense. If, for example, you can run fifty by yourself but sixty is more than you can handle without help, you're better off with fifty UNLESS you can run eighty or more. You would lose money by hiring help to run a few extra cows unless you were able to run enough beyond what you can handle by yourself to make help profitable.

You can make a decent living with 30 acres of tobacco, if you do as much of the labor yourself as is humanly possible. You can go broke in a year with 60 hireing it done.

 

[cowgirl8]

you asked a q with alot of veriables.yes you used to could pay for a place with cattle.i should know because my dad did that.but fast farward 40yrs.land now cost a min of $1500 to $2000ac.cows used to cost $200 40yrs ago.now any kind of a cow good or bad will cost $1500 to $2000.so use a sharp pencile and see what you can do.i run cows win loose or draw.meaning if they make a profit great i can buy more cows or equipment.in the last 3 months weve cut the herd by 4 cows and 7 calves.checked the #s the other day and still 32 heifer calves and 12 bull calves.plus some are getting ready to calve.the bull calves will sell after the 1st of the year.unless i decide to try to buy more cows in dec and sell some early.we bale our own hay.so yes we are making money.

I thought about it and you are so right. When we bought our land the high price was around 600, but we found a fixer upper for 260-300 an acre. I remember looking at places thinking how expensive they were at 600. Sat down on our porch to check out the classifieds and saw a small add saying 1025 acres, 260 an acre, CRP contract for trees. Made an appointment to look at it, had our 2 babies in tow and a pregnant me, the Realtor took one look at us and thought her time was wasted..lol The place was horrid, had a cabin that druggies had been hanging out in, had bullet holes all in it....We lived in it for 2 years..lol...Anywho, to get what you want you may have to buy what everyone else doesnt want, then make it into what you want. We moved further from family, in the middle of nowhere. Didnt even have running water at first. The only thing we wished we had done was buy up every piece of land under 300 an acre. We could be 5 times bigger and the going rate for land here is 2000 now.. kicking ourselves.... Kind of makes me wonder if 20 years from now our grandkids will be wishing that land was cheap like it was when their parents bought for 2000 an acre..lol

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

There are milestones that you have to watch out for in there as well. Aaron touched on labor expense. If, for example, you can run fifty by yourself but sixty is more than you can handle without help, you're better off with fifty UNLESS you can run eighty or more. You would lose money by hiring help to run a few extra cows unless you were able to run enough beyond what you can handle by yourself to make help profitable.

You can make a decent living with 30 acres of tobacco, if you do as much of the labor yourself as is humanly possible. You can go broke in a year with 60 hireing it done.

I've watched those guys growing tobacco up on our place, talk about a labor intensive crop. Wow!

 

[backhoeboogie]

X number of cows for land payments.

X number of cows for taxes.

X number of cows for fertilizer.

X number of cows for upkeep and meds.

X number of cows for profit.

The first three X's are pretty much fixed. You have to factor in drought for the last X.

More is better when you have wet years. Less on dry years. Surplus hay works when the drought hit and the market drops.

 

[greybeard]

X number of cows for land payments.

X number of cows for taxes.

X number of cows for fertilizer.

X number of cows for upkeep and meds.

X number of cows for profit.

The first three X's are pretty much fixed. You have to factor in drought for the last X.

More is better when you have wet years. Less on dry years. Surplus hay works when the drought hit and the market drops.

I could easily run more and would except for that last X, and the obvious drought factor.
Lots of folks got caught with more cattle than their forage would support when the last drought hit, and the huge 2011 selloff began, driving prices down, which meant many of those extra cows were sold at less than what the producer had in them.
I didn't have to sell any but I'm still gun shy about stretching myself out too far.
Livestock is just like wall street stock--when one of the variables goes downhill, better be ready to sell at a moment's notice BEFORE prices drop too far.

 

[backhoeboogie]

X number of cows for land payments.

X number of cows for taxes.

X number of cows for fertilizer.

X number of cows for upkeep and meds.

X number of cows for profit.

The first three X's are pretty much fixed. You have to factor in drought for the last X.

More is better when you have wet years. Less on dry years. Surplus hay works when the drought hit and the market drops.

I could easily run more and would except for that last X, and the obvious drought factor.
Lots of folks got caught with more cattle than their forage would support when the last drought hit, and the huge 2011 selloff began, driving prices down, which meant many of those extra cows were sold at less than what the producer had in them.
I didn't have to sell any but I'm still gun shy about stretching myself out too far.
Livestock is just like wall street stock--when one of the variables goes downhill, better be ready to sell at a moment's notice BEFORE prices drop too far.

I watched Daddy go under the same way. Hay prices go up, cattle prices go down. He puts his hopes in holding over.

CB said long ago that a person cannot have too much hay. He's right. You have to put your eggs in different baskets tho; I lost three barns in the '90 fire. Plus all my fences on one patch. Now my hay is stored at different locations.

 

[cowgirl8]

I watched Daddy go under the same way. Hay prices go up, cattle prices go down. He puts his hopes in holding over.

CB said long ago that a person cannot have too much hay. He's right. You have to put your eggs in different baskets tho; I lost three barns in the '90 fire. Plus all my fences on one patch. Now my hay is stored at different locations.

We now keep 2 years worth of hay on hand. We keep stacks in different locations too. 2000 bales will get us through two average years.

 

[bigbull338]

we dont keep 2yrs hay.but i do always know where i can find and get good hay worth the money.

 

[Brute 23]

The cheaper in volume applies to equipment in a lot of cases, which, is probably one of the top 3 expenses for most operation.

In many cases the same tractor, trailer, or truck can service 30 head and 150 head. Its a lot easier to justify these items with the 150 head revenue. There are sweet spots if you graph number of head vs expenses.

You have to be careful with the hay deal. There is such thing as too much hay. I've seen people with $20K worth of hay stacked for $10K worth of cattle. Hay is a necessary evil but its a bad investment. You don't want your margin for the year invested in hay... the depreciation is horrible. You have to have a good budget based on real numbers you have kept on YOUR operation. That budget has to consist of a line in the sand with a good evacuation plan. Each head is a unit of cash production. Its very easy to calculate the breaking point where they can not earn more than you have spent.