Is it a calf...or not? (pics)

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milkmaid

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Boss had a calvy heifer that, long story short, ended up on the back 40 with the open/short bred heifer herd. We went out yesterday to find the heifer and bring her back, she's deflated, traces of blood on her tail...she's calved. We looked for the calf last night; no sign of it. I went out with the dogs this evening and they found a skull, backbone, and something that looks like a hip joint...sort of looks like it anyways. All are picked nearly clean but recent, as evidenced by the flies all over the bones. So I took a few pictures...it's the right size and age for the calf we're looking for, but that doesn't mean much.

Skull with hand for comparison
skullandhand.jpg


Skull and backbone
skullandbackbone.jpg


Skull bottom view
skullupsidedown.jpg


Skull side view
skullsideview.jpg


Main thing that's bothering me is those TEETH. Granted, they're molars, and bovines do have molars, but a brand new calf doesn't...I don't think? Wish the front part of the skull hadn't been chewed off. I had a jawbone too but it must have fallen off the four wheeler on the way back home. There were teeth on top and bottom. The molars are through the bone - anyone know if a brand new calf's molars are through the bone yet? when do they come in?

So anyways, is it a calf skull...or do I need to go hunting again?
Thanks :)
 
i'd say you found it...looks just like a calf skull to me...maybe the eyes are a little larger than what i've seen but i'd say its definately a calf :) ...no doubt in my mind...im not sure if its the same calf you're looking for but its a calf skull
 
well its obvious to see either that skulls has been there for a while or something has gnawed at it...the front of the skull has either just fell off or been gnawed off

I hope this helps...but this is what a normal calf skull looks like
calf.jpg
 
Heritage_Farmboy":3hbjgexu said:
well its obvious to see either that skulls has been there for a while or something has gnawed at it...the front of the skull has either just fell off or been gnawed off

I hope this helps...but this is what a normal calf skull looks like
calf.jpg

Nice one!

Did you boil that or use maggots and peroxide?

Bez?
 
Bez?":2nkk2eyy said:
Heritage_Farmboy":2nkk2eyy said:
well its obvious to see either that skulls has been there for a while or something has gnawed at it...the front of the skull has either just fell off or been gnawed off

I hope this helps...but this is what a normal calf skull looks like
calf.jpg

Nice one!

Did you boil that or use maggots and peroxide?

Bez?

actually I just took it from the internet :D ...I dont keep skulls around here :lol:
 
HF, I think the skull and bones were picked over by coyotes and vultures. My guess is the heifer calved day-before-yesterday and calf was DOA. I'm sure the skull and backbone are recent, as there were flies all over, you can still find bits of meat/blood, and the dogs were pretty happy to find the bones. LOL. I told them to leave everything alone; they weren't allowed to destroy the evidence. :lol:

I'm guessing that skull pic you posted is of a mature cow? Thanks for posting; that certainly helps. Makes me more confident that what I have is a bovine skull too.

I found something in an article about aging cattle by their teeth...
  • It is difficult to use the premolars for age determination, since their growth pattern is rather erratic ( Figure 8 ). The first pairs of permanent molars appear around five months of age. The center molars appear at 12 to 18 months, and are often used as a guide to split the younger and the intermediate classes when there is some doubt about the pattern of the incisors. The posterior, or third pair of permanent molars, appear between 24 and 30 months. The third pair of molars are often used to supplement the incisor pattern when steers approach the maximum limits of the older class.
Doesn't say anything about temporary/baby sets of molars though.

I think I'm going to go stick my hand inside a LIVE calf's mouth in the morning and see if they have molars. :lol: Come to think of it, I think they do...lost my pill gun awhile back and I've been chomped a few times while stuffing pills down by hand. :lol2:

Thanks for the help :)
 
I'm not entirely sure about a brand new born but I have been bitten on occasion while working with getting the bottle nipple in the right place in calves mouths so I know there are sharp teeth back there, sharp enough to draw blood. I wouldn't think ther we as big as the ones on the skull you found though. If the calf had only been dead a day or two there should also be evidence of hide somewhere, that seems to be one of the last things to go away besides the bones. Those remains look to be older then a day or two to me anyway.
 
I keep a few skulls to flesh out to sell to folks who need that sort of thing, the coyotes and dogs chew off the front right away. Don't do veal but do know that calves have teeth in back, been bit too. Magpies can clean a carcass in no time. I'd look for birds flocking were they normally do not.
Just my two bits worth. Dmc
 
milkmaid, You have the skull, bones of a very small calf. Look at the size of the skull compared to your hand. And newborn calves have molars at birth. I think you found your calf.

mnmt
 
milkmaid":1lh5h0nr said:
HF, I think the skull and bones were picked over by coyotes and vultures. My guess is the heifer calved day-before-yesterday and calf was DOA. I'm sure the skull and backbone are recent, as there were flies all over, you can still find bits of meat/blood, and the dogs were pretty happy to find the bones. LOL. I told them to leave everything alone; they weren't allowed to destroy the evidence. :lol:

I'm guessing that skull pic you posted is of a mature cow? Thanks for posting; that certainly helps. Makes me more confident that what I have is a bovine skull too.

I found something in an article about aging cattle by their teeth...
  • It is difficult to use the premolars for age determination, since their growth pattern is rather erratic ( Figure 8 ). The first pairs of permanent molars appear around five months of age. The center molars appear at 12 to 18 months, and are often used as a guide to split the younger and the intermediate classes when there is some doubt about the pattern of the incisors. The posterior, or third pair of permanent molars, appear between 24 and 30 months. The third pair of molars are often used to supplement the incisor pattern when steers approach the maximum limits of the older class.
Doesn't say anything about temporary/baby sets of molars though.

I think I'm going to go stick my hand inside a LIVE calf's mouth in the morning and see if they have molars. :lol: Come to think of it, I think they do...lost my pill gun awhile back and I've been chomped a few times while stuffing pills down by hand. :lol2:

Thanks for the help :)

Milkmaid...thats the skull of a calf that I posted :) ...did the jawbone that you had look like the one in the picture?...a mature cow's skull looks very different than the picture I posted before...so you can be sure that was a young calf in the last picture :) ...i'll post a picture of the skull of a mature cow to show you how different they actually are...the biggest difference is the formation of the eyesocket which you will be able to notice in the picture :D

bos1.jpg


I believe you've found the calf :)

Take care and have a great day Milkmaid :cboy:
 
HF, jawbone did look like that but there were also molars on the bottom jaw - I'm not sure if there are molars on the bottom jaw of your pic of the calf skull or not. Can't really tell.

Sidney- the bones were scattered pretty far and while I didn't see any other bones or pieces of hide, they could well have been nearby but I just missed seeing them. There's a good 40 acres of hills, trees, water and sagebrush, so there's a lot of country the extra parts could have been hiding in. We do have quite a few coyotes that live in that area so it doesn't surprise me too much if this was all that was left after 2 days. There were also a few vultures circling the pasture day-before-yesterday -- they clean a carcass pretty quickly too.

Based on the pics and the information I have, I'm going to conclude that the skull is from the calf I was looking for, which means I don't need to go hunting again.

Thanks everyone for your help! :)
 
I left the backbone outside and the dogs nabbed it last night when I wasn't watching. :lol: Don't think there's anything I can do for that calf now. :lol2: 8)
 
Beefy":3kgo8xap said:
its a lost cause, Milkmaid. just give up.

I'm convinced she don't know the meaning of these word's. A lot of animals are alive today because of her. A lot of calves have made it because of her determination and dedication. Yea, for Milkmaid.
 

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