Irish Black Cattle

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Mr. Greenjeans

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This is an attempt to raise the subject of this new breed of line-bred cattle without the previous rancor that some on this board expressed in regard to the legalities of promotion vs. information. I remain interested in this line of cattle from the standpoint of crossbreeding.

Of the myriad of different breeds to choose from as well as personal favorites (mine being Brangus and Limousin), I think this breed might provide an option for the majority of us who are commercial breeders as well as a more profitable option if all we can operate is 20-30 head on smaller acreages.

Our goal is consistency and quality.

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A small registered herd with a focused gene pool could be a way to make serious money as a seedstock operator. I would love to be "that guy" providing the unbelievable bulls everyone is wanting to put on their cattle.

Are Irish Blacks (a line-bred variance of Beef Friesan cattle) worth their salt?

Mr. Greenjeans
 
Are they "worth their salt?" Time will tell. I think there are some people on this board who have bought breeding stock. Maybe they'll jump in and give you their thoughts.

My thoughts are:

1. If you think the small, tight, gene pool is a good thing, this might be the breed.

2. If you're willing to sign a contract restricting what you can do with the cattle, this might be the breed.

3. Commercial cattlemen today like and use EPDs. Do the Blacks have them?

Good luck.....
 
All good points Frankie. With todays mongrelization (due more to reckless breeding than efforts in hybridization) of cattle, it would seem a pure line of genetics would add more consistency and hybridization than using a black bull only for the sake of using a black bull that someone wouldn't otherwise be able to tell phenotypically as a limousin, simmental, or angus unless they are labeled as such.

Homozygous black + homozygous polled = homozygous "quien sabe" (who knows)

Quien Sabe brands were Texan brands used by Texans of Mexican descent where the son added a twist to his fathers brand. After a few generations you would end up with a confusing "Quien Sabe" brand with designs flying off in every direction.

An example of a "Quien Sabe Simmental"

BrooksTooBlack.jpg

This could easily be under the title "What breed is it?"

Call me old fashioned but here is how other breeds should appear.

Limousin

BB-041.jpg


Simmental

BB-079.jpg


Maine-Anjou

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In summary, it is nice to know exactly what you are using as well as the animal looking and performing the part. Irish Blacks look the part. Are they performers?
 
Some of us still have red Fullblood Limousin, folks don't have to guess what my cattle are when they drive by. I think your are right about most of the breeds being diluated.
 
Mr. Greenjeans-

I have answered your original post on this thread with a PM to you. As you alluded, the Irish Blacks theme had been subverted several months ago by some of those who apparently either didn't understand how to read the website, or were apprehensive (shall I say - afraid?) about the high quality and potential of the Irish Blacks Breed. I was and still am sincere about saying that I think that the Irish Blacks breed has one of the greatest potentials for explosive improvement in cross breeding as any breed currently being used in the North American Area! ...and that is to say nothing about using them as a provider of outstanding purebred Genetics!

As is usually the case, some people are prone to practice "Condemnation Before Investigation!" for reasons of their own. I recommend Investigating the merits of Irish Blacks before making a decision to ignore their qualities and opportunities for Profit in your beef operations.

Oh, and by the way! They are not really a "new breed." Maurice Boney has been line-breeding them for amost 40 years right here in the USA!

Check them out! http://www.irishblacks.com/

DOC HARRIS
 
I recently bought some of the Irish Blacks. I think they are very good cattle and are "For real". I have only had them for a little over 6 weeks, but in that time my 6 yearling heifers have grown an average of 90 lbs on an unrestricted forage only diet. My 2 yr old bull has gained 120 lbs on the same diet.(I weighed them at delivery and at 6 wks) The cattle are very correct in their traits and type. I am going to put the IB bull in with 51 commerical cows around the 4th of July. I am eager to see his calf crop next spring. It is my intention to raise purebred IB cattle as seedstock for crossbreeding. My IB bull is a double grandson of the 1340 bull on the website and a double greatgrandson of the 1359 IB bull also on the site. I don't have a camera as yet, but I will post some pictures as soon as I get one. I live in Ohio.
 
Mr. Greenjeans":38pgp0z3 said:
All good points Frankie. With todays mongrelization (due more to reckless breeding than efforts in hybridization) of cattle, it would seem a pure line of genetics would add more consistency and hybridization than using a black bull only for the sake of using a black bull that someone wouldn't otherwise be able to tell phenotypically as a limousin, simmental, or angus unless they are labeled as such.

Homozygous black + homozygous polled = homozygous "quien sabe" (who knows)

Quien Sabe brands were Texan brands used by Texans of Mexican descent where the son added a twist to his fathers brand. After a few generations you would end up with a confusing "Quien Sabe" brand with designs flying off in every direction.

An example of a "Quien Sabe Simmental"

BrooksTooBlack.jpg

This could easily be under the title "What breed is it?"

Call me old fashioned but here is how other breeds should appear.

Limousin

BB-041.jpg


Simmental

BB-079.jpg


Maine-Anjou

BB-062.jpg


In summary, it is nice to know exactly what you are using as well as the animal looking and performing the part. Irish Blacks look the part. Are they performers?

Mr Greenjeans, if you are old fashioned then I am old fashioned.

That is what a Maine bull should look like!
 
the maine bull above is sorely lacking.

a maine bull could look like the one's posted on

http://www.browarny.com/legacy/gallery/ ... efault.asp

the third row down in the middle is a maine bull called vainqueur, which is french for winner.

if you back up a couple of pages on that site, there are some video's of some old bulls as well. i think browarny's have over 3 million archived photos from the 70's to the present and they are scanning all of them at maximum resolution and archiving them. they recognize they have a piece of history. they have both the animals and the people.

vainqueur (never collected) had only 2 direct descendents come to america, a bull and a cow that i have found. i have a great grandson semen and at some point will flush some fullblood cows, maintain the offspring as fullbloods, and crossbreed them to my 5 cows who are being bred to two half brothers who carry both the male and female lines from this bull, as well as a full brother and sister of purebred maine's (blacks) further down in the pedigree which excel at soundness. blah blah blah. this line has a few of characteristics most maine's are missing. it will probably take me about 15-20 years since it's a hobby. oh well.
 
knabe":33o73jxb said:
the maine bull above is sorely lacking.

a maine bull could look like the one's posted on

http://www.browarny.com/legacy/gallery/ ... efault.asp

the third row down in the middle is a maine bull called vainqueur, which is french for winner.

if you back up a couple of pages on that site, there are some video's of some old bulls as well. i think browarny's have over 3 million archived photos from the 70's to the present and they are scanning all of them at maximum resolution and archiving them. they recognize they have a piece of history. they have both the animals and the people.

vainqueur (never collected) had only 2 direct descendents come to america, a bull and a cow that i have found. i have a great grandson semen and at some point will flush some fullblood cows, maintain the offspring as fullbloods, and crossbreed them to my 5 cows who are being bred to two half brothers who carry both the male and female lines from this bull, as well as a full brother and sister of purebred maine's (blacks) further down in the pedigree which excel at soundness. blah blah blah. this line has a few of characteristics most maine's are missing. it will probably take me about 15-20 years since it's a hobby. oh well.


knabe,

I agree the bull lacks soundness.

I was referring to the colour and the amount of red meat carried, as opposed to the fine and dainty Angus wannabes that are masquerading as Maine cattle in America.
 
Keren,

I knew what you originally meant.

Knabe,

I can certainly see the flaws that you see and if you have followed any of Keren's posts you would be able to know she can pick an animal apart.

I followed the link provided by knabe and finally saw a picture of Prince Pompadour (limousin).

Regards,

Mr. Greenjeans
 

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