Intruder in my herd

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LMCR

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I have a herd of registered red angus cattle, a neighbor's scrub bull broke through my fence and may have bred 3 of my best heifers. I had to hire extra crew to get him out and repair the fence. What do you think this guy should be responsible for?
And by the way, he didn't even apologize.
Can anyone answer this one?
LMCR
 

Jake

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You can't hold him responsible for his bull getting in with your heifers. You'll want to keep good relations with your neighbors anyways. Lutalyse your heifers and if they are going to be cycling and you don't have a bull to service them and get it over with you can expect to have problems. Let him know that you'd appreciate it if the two of you could keep an extra eye on that pasture's fences to make sure more mix ups don't happen.
 

D.R. Cattle

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I'm afraid I don't agree with Jake on every point. Yes, you want to keep good relations with your neighbor. But if he has a crappy bull and you are breeding high quality stock, without the desire of his bull getting fresh with your heifers, he needs to at least go out of his way to be a good neighbor to you! If I was the owner of the jailbreaker bull, I would offer to at least purchase the Lutalyse and assist in working your heifers. Of course I would take that as an insult on my bull, and consider the reasons why you didn't like him, but everybody has their own ideas on breeds and quality. I had a stroke of luck a little while back. My bull decided to disregard the fence and visit the neighbor's heifers. Luckily the neighbor was impressed with my bull and reparations were made in the form of letting him keep the bull busy for a little while. I'm convinced he will be well pleased with the calves.
 

jcarkie

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when it comes to bulls and neighbors it is an on going thing. i agree with both of the post you need a good relationship with your neighbors as best you can. if you have registered heifers that is reason enough to not want an unregistered bull. i have a neighbor that likes the angus and i have a braford which he thinks is wild and hard to handle ( even though i load him by myself and haul him from place to place). we talked about sharing but we can't agree on a breeed. so i breed at a place where there is no conflict i tell him where my bull is and he moves his and vice versa. you have to work together if possible. on the fence too.
 
A

Anonymous

Agree that neighbor relations are important. Equally important is to protect a purebred herd (or any other for that matter). Would this be legally called "Criminal Tresspass"? Such a bull could be considered a lethal weapon....

A neighbor that doesn't apologize or even offer to pay for damage to your property by his maverick bull is NOT a "neighbor" but an adversary. Assuming YOU have a quality fence on your property, then you have "protected" your property legally.

Fortunately one side of our property is a state highway, the other side has a county road, and the other two sides have the original poor fence along with our new 5-1/2' 7 strand barb wire fence on our side. Our open heifers or cows are on interior paddocks, so any possible intruders have at least two fences to negotiate. Additionally, at least one of us is here 99% of the time 24/7. We also have other security options for our pureblood registered herd.

If a stray bull got into our area, we would first call the local Sheriff to come out (5 minutes from here). Then we would ensure our open females were protected. And, take photos of any damage. Then, owner would try to be found. We also have one or more secure corals to put a stray bull in. He/she would not get his bull back until he/she paid for repairs to damage to fence, plus boarding fees for his bull.

It is the responsibility of ANY livestock owner to CONTAIN any breeding age male livestock and ensure they do not pose a human, livestock, or property threat to anyone else.
 

Jake

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Wow Bill I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. Cattle can be expected to get out everyonce in a while. If cows/ heifers are cycling and there is no guarding bull it is pretty naive to think that a functioning bull will not check it out and try to get at her. I've never believed in charging neighbors no matter how poor they are for boarding, damages, or other such matters. Someday one of your own animals may go on a rampage and cause some damage that will be made up for by your understanding of past happenings. Also both sides usually could have done something to prevent it so whom ever's cattle acted first shouldn't be the owner who must pay for it, it should be something mutual that is worked out in helping hands or such over time.
 

Ellie May

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We had that same problem only they were steers & the guys cattle is always sick so they transported (I think) pink eye & stuff. We put up about 12 strands of barbwire in through there they would still jump over the fence.
Ellie May
 
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Anonymous

I seen/heard bulls clear two fences to get to the cow in heat! I had a bull (good temperament) that cleared the corral AND the fence to get to the cow in season....talk about determination. His calves were great...very gentle and they were not fence jumpers!
 

TR

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Okay, I can agree on keeping neighborly relations, but I'm just not seeing how it would be our responsibility to keep the neighbor's bull out of our pasture. I was under the impression that it was the owner of the animal to keep it where it belonged. As the recipient of the neighbor's "friendly" bull for the third time in as many months, I gotta tell ya, I'm getting tired of feeding the sucker, and he's a really big boy too! Not to mention that we have a bull who's intimidated by the big, older guy from next door. The fence is hot wired on both sides, and he doesn't seem to care. Just goes over it. So, the question remains, how is this our responsibility again?
 

Frankie

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Talk to your county sheriff or a lawyer. Each state has different laws. We had a problem much like yours. We had registered Angus heifers on a lease pasture and the neighbor's bull came over twice. The first time we kept our mouth shut, got him out and gave the heifers a shot. The second time, we called the ranch manager. He came over with the elderly owner who said, "well, you shouldn't be putting heifers on here. What do you expect from a bull." We let him know that we expected him to keep his bull out. We paid the lease and we'd put whatever we wanted on the place. We eventually put up a hot wire. We furnished the charger and half the labor; he furnished the rest of the labor and the electricity. It kept the bull out. Several years ago a doctor who raised Limousin cattle in my area hauled his neighbor's bull to the sale barn. The guy sued him but the doctor won because he had copies of certified letters that he had written to the neighbor complaining and warning him to keep his bull out. It's good to be neighborly, but when you're trying to raise good stock, you've got to pay attention to this stuff. And Lutalyse is not cheap. Get some legal advise.
 

TR

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Thanks Frankie. Its the same type situation here; lease pasture, etc....luckily, these are mama cows who are beyond their first calving, and not purebred, however, we bought our bull for a reason, and it wasn't for more Charolais influence on the calves of these cows. While its not as detrimental to the purity of this herd, the replacement heifers are due to go out there in the spring for breeding, and the neighbor's bull throws huge calves. With our small, english bred heifers, I'm quite hesitant to allow this guy to jump the fence to take care of what he considers his business. I have a feeling we'd be pulling calves until the cows come home (so to speak!) Not to mention that feeding an unwanted 2000lb + neighbor's bull during winter conditions gets a little frustrating. Maybe the answer to this dilemma is to just bring our low BW bull here to the home pasture to service the heifers and let the neighbor's bull have free reign with the lease pasture cows. At least that way we wouldn't be feeding 2 bulls to service the same small herd and would be able to make sure the heifers were bred by the right bull. Its just too bad he's a big 'ol Charolais and not an Angus, Brangus or Hereford bull. That would be a pretty good deal!

Sounds to me that after a good faith effort to make the situation right, the ultimate responsibility of keeping animals on their side of the fence rests with the owner of those animals.
 

D.R. Cattle

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Only 1 solution. Owner of the bull must accept his responsibility, build a fence with integrity and shake your hand for being patient with him.
 

Frankie

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TR":3w56fx2e said:
Sounds to me that after a good faith effort to make the situation right, the ultimate responsibility of keeping animals on their side of the fence rests with the owner of those animals.

I agree with you. But sometimes you have to stand up and cause that to happen. If you know your legal rights, it's easier to decide what to do. Good luck...
 

jcarkie

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i believe in turn the other cheek and do unto others, but you do have to draw the line . maybe three strikes you are out. if someone is trying to work with you, but if they think boys will be boys, then you have to take drastic measures. because you would like to pasture what you want where you want, but i move mine to compensate and give my share to save fences and frustration. compromise works better than confrontation.
 

la4angus

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I would agree with Frankie. Get some legal advice, and if the law is on your side, confront the guy with your information and explain to him what will happen if he doesn't take care of his responsibilities.
 
A

Anonymous

Jake":2meujkie said:
Wow Bill I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. Cattle can be expected to get out everyonce in a while. If cows/ heifers are cycling and there is no guarding bull it is pretty naive to think that a functioning bull will not check it out and try to get at her. I've never believed in charging neighbors no matter how poor they are for boarding, damages, or other such matters. Someday one of your own animals may go on a rampage and cause some damage that will be made up for by your understanding of past happenings. Also both sides usually could have done something to prevent it so whom ever's cattle acted first shouldn't be the owner who must pay for it, it should be something mutual that is worked out in helping hands or such over time.

Jake...I don't think YOU would be an idiot neighbor! :) Like I said, we have a secure area and 3 bulls to guard our area IF a neighbor put a bull in his/her pasture. When you're raising quality stock, producing calves potentially selling for $2,000 + and higher $$ cows, heifers, you try to protect your own interests and don't cut any possible AH neighbor leasing pasture to another AH. Same holds true for our registered horses--when our foals are valued several thou $$ each when they hit the ground; well, even less tolerance for an uninvited Stallion on the loose.

I would think any pureblood foundation stock breeder would have similar INtolerance for an outsider contaminating his/her herd.

Off my soapbox now... 8)
 

Oldtimer

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I'm just gonna add my two bits worth- if you were up here in open range land you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, unless the animal did personal injury to someone. Most pastureland up here is considered Open Range, meaning its up to you to fence the other persons cattle out- some areas( mostly farmland) has been put into herd districts which require you to keep your cattle out or face liability. Even most of the highways in Montana are considered open range and the cow has priority over the automobile.
 

dun

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Although you can fix a problem with a bull getting in and breeding your animals, the one thing that can't be easily fixed are STD. Not everyone vaccinates to the same level. In this area, hardly anyone vaccinates bulls unless they are high quality registered stuff. There are so many hillbilly hybrids floating around who knows what can happen. A friend of mine had a bull just mysteriously show up shortly after he started calving. He couldn't find anyone that claimed it so he left it to breed his cows since it was a "pretty good" looking bull. Bull bred everything on the place, left for about a week then came back and took up ermanent residence. Around the 6-7 month stage, every cow aborted, accept the ones that we had AIed. He was so disgusted he ended up selling out completely. So much for his free lunch.

dun


Running Arrow Farm":2xh292u0 said:
Jake":2xh292u0 said:
Wow Bill I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. Cattle can be expected to get out everyonce in a while. If cows/ heifers are cycling and there is no guarding bull it is pretty naive to think that a functioning bull will not check it out and try to get at her. I've never believed in charging neighbors no matter how poor they are for boarding, damages, or other such matters. Someday one of your own animals may go on a rampage and cause some damage that will be made up for by your understanding of past happenings. Also both sides usually could have done something to prevent it so whom ever's cattle acted first shouldn't be the owner who must pay for it, it should be something mutual that is worked out in helping hands or such over time.

Jake...I don't think YOU would be an idiot neighbor! :) Like I said, we have a secure area and 3 bulls to guard our area IF a neighbor put a bull in his/her pasture. When you're raising quality stock, producing calves potentially selling for $2,000 + and higher $$ cows, heifers, you try to protect your own interests and don't cut any possible AH neighbor leasing pasture to another AH. Same holds true for our registered horses--when our foals are valued several thou $$ each when they hit the ground; well, even less tolerance for an uninvited Stallion on the loose.

I would think any pureblood foundation stock breeder would have similar INtolerance for an outsider contaminating his/her herd.

Off my soapbox now... 8)
 
A

Anonymous

I would think that the best policy is to try to be a good neighbor. Too many stories of folks cutting fence, opening gates, and harming livestock in revenge for them all to be false. Life is too short to hold grudges.
 

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