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youngbuck

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North Central Texas
Hey all! Im a 17 year old high school senior, i'm involved with my FFA and county 4h out here in north texas, i've always had an interest in raising and producing cattle. I would be a first generation raiser if raising is the pathway I decide to take.

Now being as young as I am and having to navigate myself through my knowledge I do understand that the odds are stacked against my favor. Im hoping to learn much as I can and hope to be interacting with many others on here. I understand that an industry such as cattle can be a very stressful and can be high risk for medium reward some years.
I want to be as realistic as possible with my future and I want to plan accordingly. With that being said I want to come out and ask a couple questions.

What are some of the biggest challenges someone starting up can and will face and how have people overcome these challenges compared to farms and ranches that went under?

What good can be expected the first couple of years?

Whats one of the smartest investments yall have made during your experience?

Thank you for taking the time to read this far and hopefully respond! I look forward to many discussions on here!

- Chris
 
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Hey all! Im a 17 year old high school senior, i'm involved with my FFA and county 4h out here in north texas, i've always had an interest in raising and producing cattle. I would be a first generation raiser if raising is the pathway I decide to take.

Now being as young as I am and having to navigate myself through my knowledge I do understand that the odds are stacked against my favor. Im hoping to learn much as I can and hope to be interacting with many others on here. I understand that an industry such as cattle can be a very stressful and can be high risk for medium reward some years.
I want to be as realistic as possible with my future and I want to plan accordingly. With that being said I want to come out and ask a couple questions.

What are some of the biggest challenges someone starting up can and will face and how have people overcome these challenges compared to farms and ranches that went under?

What good can be expected the first couple of years?

Whats one of the smartest investments yall have made during your experience?

Thank you for taking the time to read this far and hopefully respond! I look forward to many discussions on here!

- Chris
The smartest investments I've made in the cattle business were in real estate. Buy a place that looks like crap and clean it up and make the infrastructure well organized and attractive. The last place I bought had been run into the ground by a crop farmer, with fences torn down and irrigation gates and ditches in bad repair. And before that someone had run sheep and there were bones all over the place. The house needed a light remodel and every building was loose and needed tightening up. By the time I sold all these things had been addressed and the selling price reflected it. The place was a mess but the bones were there (Yeah, I went there) and I made more money on the real estate than I did on the cattle.

So my best advice is don't have a single focus and be open to opportunity. Cattle are awesome, but taking some pride in what you do can cover all kinds of things. Enjoy it all.
 
When first starting out think leasing. Build equity in your herd before buying land. And don't be afraid of moving. Maybe a long ways from home. There are opportunities out but odds are they won't knock on your door, you have to go out and find them.One way to get started is to find a rancher who allows the employee to run some cows of their own. You learn the business while building a herd. Eventually you will get big enough that you have to find some where for your cows. I have seen several guys get started that way.
 
If you are planning on higher education, these programs might work for you:


Then after at least two years of work experience can apply here:


If school isn't your thing, then get out there and find a ranch job, see some country and different ways of ranching and start learning the business.
 
The smartest investments I've made in the cattle business were in real estate. Buy a place that looks like crap and clean it up and make the infrastructure well organized and attractive. The last place I bought had been run into the ground by a crop farmer, with fences torn down and irrigation gates and ditches in bad repair. And before that someone had run sheep and there were bones all over the place. The house needed a light remodel and every building was loose and needed tightening up. By the time I sold all these things had been addressed and the selling price reflected it. The place was a mess but the bones were there (Yeah, I went there) and I made more money on the real estate than I did on the cattle.

So my best advice is don't have a single focus and be open to opportunity. Cattle are awesome, but taking some pride in what you do can cover all kinds of things. Enjoy it all.
Can you elaborate on your statement "the bones were there"? What makes the bones of land good? Is is the topography of the land? the soil composition? any water features on land? a good fence? Type of grass?

I find it really interesting how much of a difference the land can make on an operation, I've heard people before talk about how their operation thrived because of the land they were on but I've always wondered what they meant by that.

Thank you sir I appreciate the response!
 
If you are planning on higher education, these programs might work for you:


Then after at least two years of work experience can apply here:


If school isn't your thing, then get out there and find a ranch job, see some country and different ways of ranching and start learning the business.
Im definitely planning on the college route, Im currently planning on taking the farm and ranch management program at tvcc in athens tx, with plans to transfer into a 4 year. Feel like college agriculture programs can help bring opportunities that could be substantial to my career.
 
Good advice so far, IMO. Best thing you could do, because you don't have first hand experience from growing up on a farm/ranch, would be to hire on with someone, preferably a someone who is "successful"... and that can be hard to determine... unless you can look at their balance sheet AND know "why" they're able to be profitable. Lots of guys out there playing with other peoples money... (investors, financiers, etc.), with lots of equipment and fancy operations... that doesn't mean they're actually profitable. And find someone who is doing what you THINK you'd like to be doing yourself. You'll learn WAY more than you'd ever be able to learn from a "school". Spend a couple years with them there, and don't avoid ANYTHING that they've got for you to do. It's ALL "learning opportunities"... and there's lots of jobs that have to be done that just aren't necessarily much "fun". Do them anyway, without complaint. Learn as much as you possibly can, by becoming their "go to guy" to get things done. You're plenty young enough to be able to spend several years learning the ropes, and that "job experience" will open doors for you that you never thought possible.

At your age, and with your lack of experience, expect to get paid kind of "at the bottom" to start with... but once you prove yourself to be a valuable, dependable contibutor to their operation, don't be afraid THEN to expect to be rewarded a bit for that too. Perhaps, some of that reward could be in the form of them letting you run a few head of cattle with their herd. Maybe you could choose a calf or two from those they're weaning to start your herd. Maybe be able to breed your cow with their bull, etc. Once you get a few numbers going, your getting your feet wet with the real numbers involved, which gets you seriously thinking about how YOU could make it work. And maybe you find out there just ISN'T a way for you to make it work too... better to find that out this way, than with a huge note at the bank. Lots of advantages in working for someone, and working something out like this. They have the equipment to get things done, that you can't afford to have. Long as your critters are running with their herd, every time that equipment goes out to do something for their critters, it's also doing it for your critters. You'll probably have access to handling facilities then too, which you wouldn't have if on your own. Allows you to "get into it slowly", and to make those necessary capital investments AFTER you're already generating income from your critters, instead of "up front".

As you go along further, maybe you could work out some sort of "working partnership" even, if your relationship is good enough. And if not, maybe at some point, you'd be able to use your experience and built up animal resources to strike up a partnership deal with someone else... maybe somewhere else... even a FAR somewhere else... like Dave said.
 
Can you elaborate on your statement "the bones were there"? What makes the bones of land good? Is is the topography of the land? the soil composition? any water features on land? a good fence? Type of grass?

I find it really interesting how much of a difference the land can make on an operation, I've heard people before talk about how their operation thrived because of the land they were on but I've always wondered what they meant by that.

Thank you sir I appreciate the response!
I've owned and had cattle on several places. The universal similarity is that they all had enough forage, water, and perimeter fencing. But bones can mean more than that. "Good" grass, planted alfalfa, cross fencing, a barn or shop or other outbuildings. A good well(s) and/or running water, and someplace to live. Even deeded access to property can be something you need to be aware of.
And you're correct that differences in land can make a difference. In Arkansas I could run a pair on an acre and a half, and in South Dakota, after I got the place back into working production, it was closer to six acres per pair with irrigation. I expected to eventually do better, but somebody made me an offer that was too good to pass up.
The main thing in buying land for cattle is you have to have an idea about how much forage the land produces and weigh that against the value of a cow. If the cow doesn't pay for the land you might have to be patient and keep looking. You will be competing with investors, hobby farmers, hunting syndicates, and developers. Don't get discouraged. I always have an open mind about what I want in real estate. Like I said, you can get more by purchasing a diamond in the rough and cleaning it up, but there are unusual circumstances that make land more affordable.

Quick EDIT: What @RDFF said about not knowing who is really successful and people playing with other people's money is very true. A lot of the guys driving a ten year old truck and living in a mud hut are the ones that have the big bank accounts and the guys with a lot of new equipment owe their lives to the bank. There are trade-offs you'll have to make.
 
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Can you elaborate on your statement "the bones were there"? What makes the bones of land good? Is is the topography of the land? the soil composition? any water features on land? a good fence? Type of grass?

I find it really interesting how much of a difference the land can make on an operation, I've heard people before talk about how their operation thrived because of the land they were on but I've always wondered what they meant by that.

Thank you sir I appreciate the response!
Hi @youngbuck (Chris)! Welcome to CT! IDK how 'set' you are in terms of becoming a cattle farmer/rancher, but here is something for you to consider: What about approaching your career from the aspect of learning as much as you can without having the stress of owning the livestock, and having a very secure job at the same time?

First off, cattle farmers/ranchers aren't 'cattle' farmers, they are grass farmers. The cattle are merely a tool to manage the grass. Few producers get this concept and it's practically unheard of for someone to understand this before they are 'neck deep in cow pies' so to speak.

I am different than most everyone on the forum. I do NOT own cattle. I am a conservationist. I am a grazing specialist. I have written well over 300 grazing management plans for as many cattle, sheep, lama, bison, horse producers. I have a BS in Animal Science, a BS in Wildlife Science, a MS in Rangeland Resources. I work for the Federal Government (USDA, NRCS).

The government has a dwindling base of applicants with the training, expertise and knowledge to help landowners. The motto of the NRCS is "Helping People Help the Land". I don't know if you get 'stressed' from the idea of book learning if that is what you want to call what I've done, but I have considerable 'field work' to my name, yet no cattle ownership and hence the stress you talk about. @GoWyo points to one direction you can go in terms of formal education that will set you up to work on an operation. (TCU has a program as well and I'm sure there are others.) My learning was from 'traditional' programs at Land Grant Universities. Purdue (Go Boilers!) and OSU (Oregon State University, go Beavs!) not the other OSU you might be thinking of.
 
There is an old saying. The cows will pay for the land or the land will pay for the cows. But the cows won't pay for both. That is one of the reasons I said look at leased land to start. Also be aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is cow/calf operation, stockers, nurse cows, the old one and done like I do, registered or seed stock which would be a real tough route for a beginner, and others. So look at your options and don't get locked into one idea to start with. Most of the guys I have known who started with nothing either had a outside job to pay living expenses or had a wife with an outside income. One drove a fuel truck, another worked nights in a sawmill, and a third had a wife who was a school teacher.
 
What are some of the biggest challenges someone starting up can and will face and how have people overcome these challenges compared to farms and ranches that went under?
Try not to borrow money for anything except your land. This will force you to start slow. Lease land would be great but it is very difficult to find in Texas especially for a beginner.

Try to hook up with someone that has some land that you can maybe run a couple cows with in exchange for some sweat equity. This may allow you to build a herd as well as give you some experience and maybe having to put off investments in pens, cattle trailers, trucks, tractors etc etc.
 
There is an old saying. The cows will pay for the land or the land will pay for the cows. But the cows won't pay for both. That is one of the reasons I said look at leased land to start. Also be aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is cow/calf operation, stockers, nurse cows, the old one and done like I do, registered or seed stock which would be a real tough route for a beginner, and others. So look at your options and don't get locked into one idea to start with. Most of the guys I have known who started with nothing either had a outside job to pay living expenses or had a wife with an outside income. One drove a fuel truck, another worked nights in a sawmill, and a third had a wife who was a school teacher.
Hence the thought of continuing your education and becoming an 'expert' conservationist/grass farmer. Many of my colleges own/have owned livestock operations. Many of those did not start their career as a livestock owner. Talk to @simme. He is retired (from the NRCS) but was (still is?) a livestock farmer as well. Hi is an engineer by education and career, and a cattle farmer.
 
When first starting out think leasing. Build equity in your herd before buying land. And don't be afraid of moving. Maybe a long ways from home. There are opportunities out but odds are they won't knock on your door, you have to go out and find them.One way to get started is to find a rancher who allows the employee to run some cows of their own. You learn the business while building a herd. Eventually you will get big enough that you have to find some where for your cows. I have seen several guys get started that way.

Where in Texas are you?
Denton county.
 
Doesn't sound like the questions of an 17 year old with no cattle connections. Here at least. Best of luck.
Thank you sir I take that as a compliment. I wouldn't say I have no connections, I've given a hand out to some raisers in my area and I'm working show steers for a guy in my county, I've been lucky enough to spend my time in high school with "the older kids" who helped get me where I am today, still have a much longer ways to go than I probably realize though.
 
Hence the thought of continuing your education and becoming an 'expert' conservationist/grass farmer. Many of my colleges own/have owned livestock operations. Many of those did not start their career as a livestock owner. Talk to @simme. He is retired (from the NRCS) but was (still is?) a livestock farmer as well. Hi is an engineer by education and career, and a cattle farmer.
Not me. I think that is your other SC friend. I never had a government job.
 

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