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Devin

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I loaned a neighbor a bull a year or so ago and he kept some heifers from that bull. He now wants to breed the heifers to their father. He says that you can do this with not problem. Is this correct?
 
Could be correct and it could be wrong. Depends on the quality of the bull and what recessive traits he may have. Both good and bad are generally magnifide with inbreeding/linebreeding.

dun
 
Dun,

If you dont care, give us some examples of both good and bad experiences when line breeding. I know it depends on the animals genetics, but what are the more likely outcomes, either way.

thanks

MD
 
If several breeders reports a calf out of an AI sire born with a potential genetic defect, our breed association uses the sire on his daughters. If he is carrying a genetic defect - it WILL show up using his daughters. They breed a certain number of daughters - if they do not have a calf born with the defect - they clear the bull & let semen sold on him again.
So, if you breed a bull to daughters, like Dun said, if there is a recessive gene (a gene that does not get expressed in the calf unless the calf inherits the same gene from both mom & dad) that is a BAD gene - your offspring has a high probability to express the bad gene. This is not just genetic defects, it can be a health problem, it could be poor feet, structure, the list goes on & on.
Now, if there is this super bull, and he doesn't carry ANY poor recessive genes, you may be duplicating all his good genes.
I would prefer breeding 1/2 or 1/4 sibs. I guess that's linebreeding instead of inbreeding (father to daughter).
 
redfornow":yzz3t8sp said:
Dun,

If you dont care, give us some examples of both good and bad experiences when line breeding. I know it depends on the animals genetics, but what are the more likely outcomes, either way.

thanks

MD

The only instances I've personally had experience with is mule foot, disposition, poor feet and small poor doing calves. We've never done it, these are from herds/bulls that I've dealt with.

dun
 
I've always heard its only called inbreeding if the offspring isn't real good. Otherwise the purebred guys call it linebreeding and they make it out like its the best thing since sliced bread. I've got two heifers that were bred back to their sire last year. They should be calving this month. I'll let you know if they are inbred or linebred. ;-)
 
I had forgotten about this one. As a genetic experiment, the vet bred multiple daughters back to there sire, did it for several generations. The 5th generation when she calved, prolapsed, the calf was dead and malformed.

dun
 
Most breeds of livestock were established with similar matings combined with severe culling. If the offspring has the qualities you are looking for without obvious problems you have an animal more likely to pass these good qualities on in a preditable manner.
 
I am interested in small operations like mine. I am sure that many have faced the same question. You really like the bull ie still young fertile great offspring, but have some of his daughters. Its got to be a good bull or we wouldnt keep him or his girls lol.

But on a small op even one screw up is silly, how often are there problems, and of those problems how big are they. Again dead calf is a BIG problem. lol none of us want that.

Hate to be redundant just curious as to how others have handled this problem and how it worked out.

Thanks
MD
 
I purposely bred one of my cows to her son hoping to get a heifer and that's what I got. The calf is growing extremely well and shows no defects. I will breed this heifer to other bulls-not back to her father. I expect this girl to turn out really nice. My dad just had two of his heifers to calve by their father, a big Gelbvieh bull. This was not intended but the bull got in with the heifers. These calves are fine, one is a bull and one is a heifer. I think they would be fine to use for breeding as long as they're bred to new blood.
 
redfornow":uof0p2sn said:
I am interested in small operations like mine. I am sure that many have faced the same question. You really like the bull ie still young fertile great offspring, but have some of his daughters. Its got to be a good bull or we wouldnt keep him or his girls lol.

But on a small op even one screw up is silly, how often are there problems, and of those problems how big are they. Again dead calf is a BIG problem. lol none of us want that.

Hate to be redundant just curious as to how others have handled this problem and how it worked out.

Thanks
MD

We address it by cheating. We've alwasy done 100% AI so it's not a problem.

dun
 
I agree on not breeding that close. It might pull out all the good side of that line, but the fear of potential defects would out weigh the other like what Dun had stated. I went to one of the bigger sales last year. They had a heifer that somehow had been bred back to her sire, and they said it was not meant to happen. With that many cattle to keep up with, and so many employees, it can happen. The bull was beautiful, and sold high. I wouldn't take the chance though. I would think the owner of that bull would have to pay close attention to the breeding of each cow they breed him to.
 
I have two cows that are examples of what bad can happen when line breeding. Although I paid very little for them, I often don't know to laugh or cry when I see them walking with the stiff gate and hunched backs.

The vet says a classic case of multi-generational in breeding. Hopefully the new generation of calves I make which of course will not be related will fare much beter. I would never, ever intentionally interbreed for that reason.:cboy:
 

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