In-breeding prevention.

[DNelson]

I have been researching about herd breeding with the same bull and not getting what the limit is. I have a bull that I bred with first calf heifers, they had a heifer calf and was bred. both with the same bull. She had a heifer. is it still smart to bred this last heifer to the same bull? she would be the third in the line of the heifers. Angus cattle.

 

[Travlr]

I have been researching about herd breeding with the same bull and not getting what the limit is. I have a bull that I bred with first calf heifers, they had a heifer calf and was bred. both with the same bull. She had a heifer. is it still smart to bred this last heifer to the same bull? she would be the third in the line of the heifers. Angus cattle.

What do you think about people breeding with their sons or daughters? Do you know why inbreeding is dangerous? Just because people do it... claiming they are expert enough to do it well... doesn't mean everyone should be doing it. The odds of you having problems goes up with each generation and you are likely getting damage regardless of appearances. It's just not a good idea...

 

[Son of Butch]

The most common problem with inbreeding is reduced fertility.
It can be avoided or overcome with very strict selection and culling, but in the real world that would be an exception rather than a rule.

p.s.
Even low fertility sires and cows do reproduce and unless closely tracked may at first go unnoticed in the short term.

 

[moses388]

Line bred pedigrees, I have seen, use at least 2 bulls. Alternating with each generation between the 2 bulls. Two well-known line breeders include Ohlde Cattle Company and Holden Herefords. I would not have the same bull stacked 3 generations in a pedigree. Would be easy to add a second bull using AI.

 

[Aero]

First - this isn't a big deal if the rent isn't riding on the progeny..

Trying to refine genetics to keep the best and sift out the problems? Inbreeding will do it as long as you are willing to cull.
Commercial operation trying to maximize outputs? Inbreeding is the opposite of what you need and will cost you money.

This isn't as scary as most folks say as long as you know there can be problems - 3 headed monsters are not the problems you can expect. Like Travlr said, fertility will take a hit as well as longevity and all of the lowly heritable traits. In my experience, you will probably have a fine calf and not think about it again. Not to be too vulgar but the only reason people freak out about inbreeding is because they compare it to humans which are much more difficult to cull.

If you know what breeding your bull comes from, I would compare his pedigree to the Angus genetic defect list. There is a long list that is worth the time to run through. A lot of bulls have been cleared through DNA testing but not many females. If you don't see any potential carriers in the last 3 generations, I wouldn't worry about it.

"The limit" will be dictated by the gene pool you have along with luck. At some point the calves will be less fertile but that could be 4 generations later - there is no way to know. If it works for you and you are OK with the relatively low risk of real problems, have at it. All animals have genetic issues and you are more likely to find them this way but the good part is that with every generation, you have improved your stock if you don't see any problems.

 

[Aero]

Angus Association RTF status

https://angus.org/Pub/RTF_Explanation.pdf

 

[DNelson]

First - this isn't a big deal if the rent isn't riding on the progeny..

Trying to refine genetics to keep the best and sift out the problems? Inbreeding will do it as long as you are willing to cull.
Commercial operation trying to maximize outputs? Inbreeding is the opposite of what you need and will cost you money.

This isn't as scary as most folks say as long as you know there can be problems - 3 headed monsters are not the problems you can expect. Like Travlr said, fertility will take a hit as well as longevity and all of the lowly heritable traits. In my experience, you will probably have a fine calf and not think about it again. Not to be too vulgar but the only reason people freak out about inbreeding is because they compare it to humans which are much more difficult to cull.

If you know what breeding your bull comes from, I would compare his pedigree to the Angus genetic defect list. There is a long list that is worth the time to run through. A lot of bulls have been cleared through DNA testing but not many females. If you don't see any potential carriers in the last 3 generations, I wouldn't worry about it.

"The limit" will be dictated by the gene pool you have along with luck. At some point the calves will be less fertile but that could be 4 generations later - there is no way to know. If it works for you and you are OK with the relatively low risk of real problems, have at it. All animals have genetic issues and you are more likely to find them this way but the good part is that with every generation, you have improved your stock if you don't see any problems.

Thanks for the very well put information. This answered my concern perfectly.