I couldn't fathom paying more than what 2 calves would bring for a cow.. Sale barn dont care about papers.. Reg. cattle sell by the pound just like non reg. think about droughts you getting sick etc. you don't want to be upside down on the cows.
Important question....just getting into the cattle business-
- Thread starter gbachman
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bigbull338
Well-known member
your right they dont care about papers.but the sale barn isnt where the money is made.if you have a good enough herd you can sell weaned replacement reg heifers for $1200 to $1600 or more all day long.i know this as my friend has sold out of his reg heifers at those prices.an he sells 18 month old bulls for $2500.JSCATTLE":26fzkjcj said:
I just can't see paying for papers on a set of heifers , weening them feeding them for 6 months shots etc.. and getting 1200 for them when I can sell trailer weened baldy heifers at 6 months old for 850 / 900 a head and sell 2 by the time that 1 retained is ready to sell . Not to mention the retained is eating grass taking away from a cow . I guess if you have 1000 acres ad plenty of grass ..not to mention that not every calf will be a marketable registered heifer . And even fewer bulls are marketable.
slick4591
Well-known member
My first suggestion is to buy the best you can within budget, papered or not. It cost the same to feed a good one as it does a bad one. If you can afford the high end then papers certainly don't hurt anything, but the lack of them can. Good luck with your venture!
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
I would have a hard time suggesting registered cattle for starting out. I would also not buy heifers.
B&M Farms
Well-known member
Buy good cows. Registered doesn't mean much unless you are trying to seed stock and then registered still doesn't mean they are good. As already said, as a beginner you will have an easier time with cows that have had a calf or two at least. I still wouldn't be scared of a good set of heifers bred to a good calving ease bull if the price was right. I wouldn't buy anything open for any reason.
greybeard
Well-known member
Yep--you already KNOW they can produce a live calf.cow pollinater":22vh50el said:
heifers=crapshoot. Especially sale barn heifers.
Salebarn=what you see is what you get, and you only see them for about 1 minute. You don't know the sire--the dam--the breeder or much of anything else.
You don't even know if they'll breed much less deliver a calf. I've done it in the distant past but never will again--just too many sources nowadays to buy private treaty. And I have done that--done it this year for that matter. I figure about the time they have their first calf, the bottom will start dropping out of the market.
BDM
Member
When I was first starting out I bought Holstein bull calves and bottle fed them. I graduated from there to 4 Holstein nurse cows and Holstein bull calves. I bred those nurse cows to what ever bull I could borrow/ rent from a neighbor. After a few years (read 5-6) I then graduated up to buying 4 red angus/simmentals cross commercial cows. My thought process was much like the guys on this board. I wanted to get my feet wet so to speak and get some experience before I jumped into the higher dollar cattle. My grandpa was a long time rancher and he helped me with the knowledge part. He was always willing to help answer questions when I had them. He always told me the only dumb question is the one you don't ask or search for an answer on. I didn't have the luxury of this board back then. There is a huge amount of information here and lots of folks willing to answer questions. I guess my point is start where and how you can start and don't ever think you have all the answers...
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
gbachman":f09svqws said:
If you're getting started in the cattle business ... do you have a business plan? What do you want to do?
Your options range from cow/calf ... stockers ... finishing beeves ... seedstock ... custom grazing ... etc ... Whatever you decide you want to be doing in five years will impact what you should do now.
***********
Several have commented about getting animals from your back yard. I second this suggestion (unless you're going to get some embryos from elsewhere and calve them out in your backyard, then, the location of the donor / bull are less significant).
I also like the idea of getting proven cows ... private treaty only. Sometimes the cattle at the sale barn are a huge bargain for the one buying them ... sometimes they're a huge money pit (i.e., they were sold for a reason!). Sometimes they're healthy ... sometimes they're not.
If you buy private treaty, have ALL of them tested for neospora before signing the check. You don't want that crap on your place and it's becoming more common.
Besides, if you buy private treaty, you may find yourself with a mentor of sorts who'll help you answer questions, etc.
...but, first off...do you have a PLAN? If not, get one.
Cattle is just like other businesses ... without a plan you have no idea if you're succeeding or not. And, if you don't have a plan, you (and your wife) better have good 'in town' jobs.
Good luck to you!
PS --- If you are interested in registered cattle, two comments ... anyone (if given enough time) can up-breed any ol' cow to a 'purebred' of whatever breed, but breeding fullbloods is a whole other ball of wax (with more responsibility to preserving the best parts of the breed, regardless of fads, etc.) ... AND ... if you have an idea of the breed (or breeds) you're considering, I'd look at getting some half-bloods (or, even better, three-quarter bloods) of that breed (or breeds) so that if/when you want to go towards registered cattle, you've saved yourself a generation or two (assuming you go the purebred route, and not the fullblood route).
PS --- If you are interested in registered cattle, two comments ... anyone (if given enough time) can up-breed any ol' cow to a 'purebred' of whatever breed, but breeding fullbloods is a whole other ball of wax (with more responsibility to preserving the best parts of the breed, regardless of fads, etc.) ... AND ... if you have an idea of the breed (or breeds) you're considering, I'd look at getting some half-bloods (or, even better, three-quarter bloods) of that breed (or breeds) so that if/when you want to go towards registered cattle, you've saved yourself a generation or two (assuming you go the purebred route, and not the fullblood route).
You can register half-3/4 bloods and get papers on them? Didnt know that
You can register half-3/4 bloods and get papers on them? Didnt know that
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
Kscattle":3hb6hn19 said:
Some breeds, yes.
But, my point was that if you buy someone else's 75% cows of your preferred breed, you're a fullblood bull of that breed away from putting some 87.5% heifers on the ground (which, in many breeds, would qualify as purebreds).
If someone is going into an upgrading program, I've always thought buying the best 75%'rs you can as the ones to get ... then, go find yourself the finest proven (!) bull you can afford.
How do you know what the dams were then? I could see breeding up to 87% but how do you register them if you don't know the history of the pedigree? You might get full bloods but not register able cows.
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
Kscattle":3hoomwff said:
Not sure I follow ...
Fullbloods are 100% of "that breed" ... i.e., there is no blood of anything other than that breed in the animal in question
Purebreds are greater than some minimum percentage, but not quite 100% ... i.e., they started out as something else, and after many generations of breeding, the minimum theoretical genetic influence was reached
For many breeds, an animal may be able to be registered as something other than purebred during an up-breeding process ... a papered animal doesn't necessarily indicate that it is ___% of that breed, just that it's on file with the breed association. Check with the breed registry of the breed of interest to determine their particular rules.
SRBeef
Well-known member
I started out with 2 bred commercial Hereford heifers from a neighbor. Very locally adapted. Then added four bred heifers from another local source.
The key step however is your first bull. After not very good calves out of a rented bull, I purchased a registered Hereford bull from a breeder in my state who raises them on grass for beef production, not shows, club calves etc. Excellent epds which you will want to learn about before buying a bull.
This registered Hereford bull had great calves and his retained heifers are the foundation of my herd as i build my numbers.
A few years ago I purchased two registered heifers from the same breeder I get my registered bulls from and am starting a registered group in my herd also though more for curiosity than anything else.
Experience tells me I want to make my own pure Hereford cows, retain my best bull calves, add another registered Hereford bull every few years and build my brood cow herd like that. I keep all of my own heifers right now unless one has a problem which I can't remember having.
I cull cows if there is any sign of an attitude. The result is a herd of pure Herefords that is fun to work with and on the way to making a decent roi on the minimal investment.
Once I get to my carrying capacity, probably around 50 brood cows, I will experiment with other breed of bull on my pure Hereford but commercial cows. While keeping my registered herd for producing replacements and retained bulls to spread my best cow genetics.
This is just one way to do it but seems to combine much of the advice earlier in this thread.
One problem with this system I see so far is that it is slow. But sometimes slow is better when you are getting into something new which I knew nothing about at the start.
Good luck.
Jim
The key step however is your first bull. After not very good calves out of a rented bull, I purchased a registered Hereford bull from a breeder in my state who raises them on grass for beef production, not shows, club calves etc. Excellent epds which you will want to learn about before buying a bull.
This registered Hereford bull had great calves and his retained heifers are the foundation of my herd as i build my numbers.
A few years ago I purchased two registered heifers from the same breeder I get my registered bulls from and am starting a registered group in my herd also though more for curiosity than anything else.
Experience tells me I want to make my own pure Hereford cows, retain my best bull calves, add another registered Hereford bull every few years and build my brood cow herd like that. I keep all of my own heifers right now unless one has a problem which I can't remember having.
I cull cows if there is any sign of an attitude. The result is a herd of pure Herefords that is fun to work with and on the way to making a decent roi on the minimal investment.
Once I get to my carrying capacity, probably around 50 brood cows, I will experiment with other breed of bull on my pure Hereford but commercial cows. While keeping my registered herd for producing replacements and retained bulls to spread my best cow genetics.
This is just one way to do it but seems to combine much of the advice earlier in this thread.
One problem with this system I see so far is that it is slow. But sometimes slow is better when you are getting into something new which I knew nothing about at the start.
Good luck.
Jim
