If you were starting a new herd from scratch..

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Lee VanRoss

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gcreekrch> Thank you for your words of encouragement! If you are not prepared for the changes coming in the industry
in the next five years you could well have a humble remembrance. God willing, I plan on two more seasons,
cows and heifers out in April of 23 take the steers on out to beef. God bless your works of good will. LVR
 

gcreekrch

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gcreekrch> Thank you for your words of encouragement! If you are not prepared for the changes coming in the industry
in the next five years you could well have a humble remembrance. God willing, I plan on two more seasons,
cows and heifers out in April of 23 take the steers on out to beef. God bless your works of good will. LVR
They weren’t words of encouragement, they were fact. I have taken the course myself and adapted the bit that worked. Have watched others that went whole hog. They aren’t in business now.
 

Aero

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Well as it happens, I am starting a new herd in central NC. Had to sell everything 8 years ago and finally got back into a position to make it happen again. After years of re-thinking I have a plan I believe in though most will think it's insane probably. The original plan was registered Aubrac and Angus. I think I have a better plan now.


2 Breeds: Aubrac and Murray Grey
Each breed is out of mostly genetically isolated registered herds. Purebreds will be managed as their own herd even though they run together most of the year. Herd will be closed after the initial purchase.

Selection:
10 Murray Grey bred heifers have been purchased and will arrive in about 10 days. I went to Crispin Murray Greys (Thomas, OK) because they have a super-consistent genetic base and aren't using different bulls all the time. Crispin purchase a large portion of OK Jeanne's breeding animals and has pretty much stuck to the same animals since then. This ribeye picture told me I was on the right track for grass finishing with these genetics. Wallace Crispin had the Igenity Beef panels for all animals but due to his severe drought conditions we didnt have time to run a T-Snip for fescue tolerance. He has sent his cattle to fescue country before with no bad feedback so it's a little bit of a gamble but worth it to me.

I flew to Hot Springs, MT to visit Scott Fredrickson's Aubrac herd - I can't imagine anyone would argue against this being the best Aubrac herd in North America. We selected 26 heifer calves and 9 bulls calves to run DNA on. These were based on me eye, past generations at the ranch to look at, and Scott's deep knowledge of their history and tendencies. All animals are having Igenity Beef, Envigor, T-Snip, BVD PI, and all bulls were tested for Horned/Polled. DNA will just be to eliminate the bottom end of traits that are important to my system. Mainly, the T-Snip results are of major concern since this herd has no experience with fescue. I will get 10 heifers and a bull out of this group - hopefully delivered by the end of November.

AgBotanica's T-Snip test is relatively knew but has quite a broad base of proven results on average. Being a test for fescue tolerance, it will not find animals that are unaffected by fescue - just those that should tolerate it better. I talked with Dr. Craig Roberts about what I could expect for results from a herd that has no historic selection for fescue issues. He said that the results would be broad but mostly bell-shaped. The results come back as a 0-50 score and he breaks that into 1-5 star groups. His instruction was to not keep any 1 stars, mostly 3-5 star females and 4-5 star bulls. His estimate was that I would be 5+ years further along in finding the right animals for fescue by going with these guidelines on the initial purchase. AgBotanica uses Neogen to run a custom panel from the DNA already submitted for Neogen products. This process is a little cumbersome but hopefully worth the trouble.


Breeding:
Bulls will come from within the herd. Tight linebreeding will be persistent and the first objective is to remove problems. Bulls will be bred to their own breed for the first 21 days then swapped to the opposite breed for 3 cycles then a terminal black bull for the rest of the time.


Breeding Result/Marketing:
Purebred Aubrac Seedstock
Purebred Murray Grey Seedstock
F1 Replacement Females
F1 Steers for grassfed beef
 

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HDRider

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Well as it happens, I am starting a new herd in central NC. Had to sell everything 8 years ago and finally got back into a position to make it happen again. After years of re-thinking I have a plan I believe in though most will think it's insane probably. The original plan was registered Aubrac and Angus. I think I have a better plan now.


2 Breeds: Aubrac and Murray Grey
Each breed is out of mostly genetically isolated registered herds. Purebreds will be managed as their own herd even though they run together most of the year. Herd will be closed after the initial purchase.

Selection:
10 Murray Grey bred heifers have been purchased and will arrive in about 10 days. I went to Crispin Murray Greys (Thomas, OK) because they have a super-consistent genetic base and aren't using different bulls all the time. Crispin purchase a large portion of OK Jeanne's breeding animals and has pretty much stuck to the same animals since then. This ribeye picture told me I was on the right track for grass finishing with these genetics. Wallace Crispin had the Igenity Beef panels for all animals but due to his severe drought conditions we didnt have time to run a T-Snip for fescue tolerance. He has sent his cattle to fescue country before with no bad feedback so it's a little bit of a gamble but worth it to me.

I flew to Hot Springs, MT to visit Scott Fredrickson's Aubrac herd - I can't imagine anyone would argue against this being the best Aubrac herd in North America. We selected 26 heifer calves and 9 bulls calves to run DNA on. These were based on me eye, past generations at the ranch to look at, and Scott's deep knowledge of their history and tendencies. All animals are having Igenity Beef, Envigor, T-Snip, BVD PI, and all bulls were tested for Horned/Polled. DNA will just be to eliminate the bottom end of traits that are important to my system. Mainly, the T-Snip results are of major concern since this herd has no experience with fescue. I will get 10 heifers and a bull out of this group - hopefully delivered by the end of November.

AgBotanica's T-Snip test is relatively knew but has quite a broad base of proven results on average. Being a test for fescue tolerance, it will not find animals that are unaffected by fescue - just those that should tolerate it better. I talked with Dr. Craig Roberts about what I could expect for results from a herd that has no historic selection for fescue issues. He said that the results would be broad but mostly bell-shaped. The results come back as a 0-50 score and he breaks that into 1-5 star groups. His instruction was to not keep any 1 stars, mostly 3-5 star females and 4-5 star bulls. His estimate was that I would be 5+ years further along in finding the right animals for fescue by going with these guidelines on the initial purchase. AgBotanica uses Neogen to run a custom panel from the DNA already submitted for Neogen products. This process is a little cumbersome but hopefully worth the trouble.


Breeding:
Bulls will come from within the herd. Tight linebreeding will be persistent and the first objective is to remove problems. Bulls will be bred to their own breed for the first 21 days then swapped to the opposite breed for 3 cycles then a terminal black bull for the rest of the time.


Breeding Result/Marketing:
Purebred Aubrac Seedstock
Purebred Murray Grey Seedstock
F1 Replacement Females
F1 Steers for grassfed beef
Heck of a plan. Keep us posted.
 

Lee VanRoss

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Aero> Without calling your sanity into question (and thus detracting my own fan club) I am wondering why you feel it necessary
to have such a long calving season? If I have this right, Like (own) 21 days -- opposite 63 days plus turn out with black bull .
I would be concerned of how practical it is to retain breeding stock that would go through 4 heat cycles and then turned out with
yet another bull. Admittedly there is much about your system I do not know but I am of the unasked for opinion that a 21-42 and
out would give better control over general herd fertility. The additional black cycle could provide additional income in the formative
years. I wish you success with your venture, great photos! LVR
 

HDRider

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Well as it happens, I am starting a new herd in central NC. Had to sell everything 8 years ago and finally got back into a position to make it happen again. After years of re-thinking I have a plan I believe in though most will think it's insane probably. The original plan was registered Aubrac and Angus. I think I have a better plan now.


2 Breeds: Aubrac and Murray Grey
Each breed is out of mostly genetically isolated registered herds. Purebreds will be managed as their own herd even though they run together most of the year. Herd will be closed after the initial purchase.

Selection:
10 Murray Grey bred heifers have been purchased and will arrive in about 10 days. I went to Crispin Murray Greys (Thomas, OK) because they have a super-consistent genetic base and aren't using different bulls all the time. Crispin purchase a large portion of OK Jeanne's breeding animals and has pretty much stuck to the same animals since then. This ribeye picture told me I was on the right track for grass finishing with these genetics. Wallace Crispin had the Igenity Beef panels for all animals but due to his severe drought conditions we didnt have time to run a T-Snip for fescue tolerance. He has sent his cattle to fescue country before with no bad feedback so it's a little bit of a gamble but worth it to me.

I flew to Hot Springs, MT to visit Scott Fredrickson's Aubrac herd - I can't imagine anyone would argue against this being the best Aubrac herd in North America. We selected 26 heifer calves and 9 bulls calves to run DNA on. These were based on me eye, past generations at the ranch to look at, and Scott's deep knowledge of their history and tendencies. All animals are having Igenity Beef, Envigor, T-Snip, BVD PI, and all bulls were tested for Horned/Polled. DNA will just be to eliminate the bottom end of traits that are important to my system. Mainly, the T-Snip results are of major concern since this herd has no experience with fescue. I will get 10 heifers and a bull out of this group - hopefully delivered by the end of November.

AgBotanica's T-Snip test is relatively knew but has quite a broad base of proven results on average. Being a test for fescue tolerance, it will not find animals that are unaffected by fescue - just those that should tolerate it better. I talked with Dr. Craig Roberts about what I could expect for results from a herd that has no historic selection for fescue issues. He said that the results would be broad but mostly bell-shaped. The results come back as a 0-50 score and he breaks that into 1-5 star groups. His instruction was to not keep any 1 stars, mostly 3-5 star females and 4-5 star bulls. His estimate was that I would be 5+ years further along in finding the right animals for fescue by going with these guidelines on the initial purchase. AgBotanica uses Neogen to run a custom panel from the DNA already submitted for Neogen products. This process is a little cumbersome but hopefully worth the trouble.


Breeding:
Bulls will come from within the herd. Tight linebreeding will be persistent and the first objective is to remove problems. Bulls will be bred to their own breed for the first 21 days then swapped to the opposite breed for 3 cycles then a terminal black bull for the rest of the time.


Breeding Result/Marketing:
Purebred Aubrac Seedstock
Purebred Murray Grey Seedstock
F1 Replacement Females
F1 Steers for grassfed beef
You being in NC made me think of this. One of the main contributors Agmantoo, was from NC. He was on CT for awhile but found some of the crowd here somewhat off-putting.

My wife and I visited his operation. He was around Mooresville. He ran a a MG bull on Black Angus cows. He was a grass wizard.

I think Agmantoo passed as a result of an ATV accident.

This is quite long but choked full of good grass talk.

 
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Aero

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Aero> Without calling your sanity into question (and thus detracting my own fan club) I am wondering why you feel it necessary
to have such a long calving season? If I have this right, Like (own) 21 days -- opposite 63 days plus turn out with black bull .
I would be concerned of how practical it is to retain breeding stock that would go through 4 heat cycles and then turned out with
yet another bull. Admittedly there is much about your system I do not know but I am of the unasked for opinion that a 21-42 and
out would give better control over general herd fertility. The additional black cycle could provide additional income in the formative
years. I wish you success with your venture, great photos! LVR
If they all get bred in the first cycle, the other won't matter I guess. This is just a start with animals that have never seen this environment and I expect some struggles along the way. Hopefully in 10 years they'll all calve on the same day but that seems a bit too optimistic for the immediate future. :)

Also, they will see pressure to find the groceries they need and other than mineral and water, I only plan to provide only the opportunity to graze. If they all breed in the first cycle I'm probably not making my selection criteria stringent enough.
 

faster horses

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You have been talking about animals that were basically abused this whole time?

Lead with that next time so people have some context on what you are saying.

... and I would still chop their heads off for leaving their calves. A cow has one job... and it better do it right up until the second it dies. No excuses.

You never said what kind of cows they were.
I did say what kind of cows they were.
Our cows were never, NEVER abused. Please read slower. I was talking of a big ranch, 3000 mother cows that the heifers did not get enough to eat during the winter, (which we don't agree with treating cattle that way) so when they calved, they were hungry and they left the calves to find something to eat. They got their heads chopped off if they didn't take their calf. That is a cardinal sin around here and on that big ranch. Who needs problems like that?

A cow has THREE jobs not just one: breed, raise a calf and breed back.

I'm though with this. Have a great day.
 

Brute 23

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I did say what kind of cows they were.
Our cows were never, NEVER abused. Please read slower. I was talking of a big ranch, 3000 mother cows that the heifers did not get enough to eat during the winter, (which we don't agree with treating cattle that way) so when they calved, they were hungry and they left the calves to find something to eat. They got their heads chopped off if they didn't take their calf. That is a cardinal sin around here and on that big ranch. Who needs problems like that?

A cow has THREE jobs not just one: breed, raise a calf and breed back.

I'm though with this. Have a great day.
Sorry I'm having a hard time following you. Suggesting that breeding heifers later made them wild threw me for a loop and apparently I never caught back up.
 

TwoByrdsMG

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Aero, I would expect each bull to cover all his females within the first 30 days- if all heifers are over 14 months/good body condition/at least 800 lbs when you turn the bull(s) out. I would not bother having a third bull at all for 20 females.

As long as those bulls are fertile and know what end to mount you should not have a 60+ day calving season (hopefully).

Look forward to hearing more about how this venture goes for you.
 

Aero

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Aero, I would expect each bull to cover all his females within the first 30 days- if all heifers are over 14 months/good body condition/at least 800 lbs when you turn the bull(s) out. I would not bother having a third bull at all for 20 females.

As long as those bulls are fertile and know what end to mount you should not have a 60+ day calving season (hopefully).

Look forward to hearing more about how this venture goes for you.
Thanks. I'm expecting to have issues for a while getting this off the ground but the breeding season should generally get tighter every year. The drought has caused the MG heifers to lose some condition over the last few months so it's hard to know where we will land. Theres also a big spread in age (13-19 months) for heifer that have been with a bull for 60 days. I just re-read my original post and the intent was to have everything worth keeping done in 3 cycles which I think shouldn't be a problem. I might be overthinking the fescue effect but I have seen some pretty bad results for animals that weren't able to tolerate it.
 

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