If you could start over again

[Jabes0623]

Obviously a hypothetical question here but I've learned a lot from hindsight in my life & I'm hoping to learn something about cattle from all of yours. I would like answers based on todays economic climate not what you would've done 40 years ago but if you were starting this herd today with an eye toward the future.

So you live in Southern Ohio, where the grass is usually plentiful, the weather warm & humid (upper 80's) in the summer & usually fairly mild (30's or 40's most days with lows in the teens) in the winter with occasionally very cold snaps. Almost everyone else's cattle are black. You could produce enough hay on your own land to feed your herd through the 4 months of winter & you were planning on running a herd of 50 cattle on rolling hilly terrain. You already own the land but still want to keep your inputs as low as possible. You could if you wanted to run 2 herds one maternal one terminal, but you don't have to. And you wanted to make money doing it. What type of operation would you set up? Would you go purebred or crossbred? What breed(s) would you run? Would you cater to the replacement heifer market, selling to hobby farmers, grass-fed, terminal beef market, or another market?

 

[Jogeephus]

I have no desire to sell pure bred or direct sales to the public so in my case I would have spent more time at the sale barn and talking to the buyers to find out what they wanted me to raise and that is what I would raise. They are the one's buying your cattle so its only reasonable that you produce what they are needing to fill their orders.

 

[dun]

If I was to start over again (which we have done 3 times) I would do it just like I did this last time. Might spend more time looking for some of the old style Shorthorn cows rather then Red Angus, but would probably end up with some of each.

 

[Limomike]

Im not good on hypothetical things... to me its the IF , woulda, coulda, shoulda stuff..

 

[1982vett]

Since I'm in the south my answer wouldn't fit your criteria. However.... Like Jogee, I don't want to raise pure breds or deal with the general public either. I don't even sell hay anymore. If I were to start out new and still have the benefit of knowing what I have already learned, I'd skip the Herefords, the Bradford and the angus an go straight to the brangus. If I could count on getting adequate and timely rains I would consider growing hay to sell...but only if I get fairly compensated for my efforts. Transfer this north and I suppose I'd have to settle on angus.

 

[Jabes0623]

1982vett wouldn't the simangus be the northern equivalent of the brangus?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

It would depend on how much work you want to put into this operation. Is it all about the dollar at the end, or the reward you get from being successful?
Either way, it is hard to beat a good simmental/Simmental cross cow in this day and age. They wean off big calves consistently, and are easy to sell. You could go purebred and sell seed stock, which is a real good market right now (we can not keep enough bulls around for buyers, but we cull pretty heavily). Or you can buy simmental cows and just send the calves to market. Your heifer mates will be worth a lot more money than just a commercial calf, if you advertise them as Simmental heifers, open or bred. People are learning that the black hided Simmental of today is not your grandpa's Simmental genetics. We have no problem using calving ease simmental bulls over angus heifers.

 

[Jabes0623]

It's about both Fire Sweep. I've reached a point in my life where I have the time & resources to chase a dream. But in that pursuit I can't lose focus of the fact that this is a business & it needs to turn a profit, hopefully a nice one.

 

[Jogeephus]

People are learning that the black hided Simmental of today is not your grandpa's Simmental genetics. We have no problem using calving ease simmental bulls over angus heifers.

Simmental is one of the bull breeds I was advised to use when I finally got enough sense to talk to the people buying my calves.

 

[Nesikep]

I would start off by buying young cows from a reputable rancher who's done the hard culling for a half dozen generations, We bought a bunch of bred heifers in 1991 that were a miserable lot, and are still chasing down some ugly genes in there 25 years later. I am starting to be satisfied with the way my herd is looking, it's not perfect, still have some poor producers once in a while, but for the most part they're OK

 

[1982vett]

1982vett wouldn't the simangus be the northern equivalent of the brangus?

Could very well be. I defer to someone that is familiar with that cross. May need to make sure it works in your local market. I remember years and years ago , dad had a Simmental bull. Got Easter Basket colored calves....but back then his cows had a little bit of this and a little of that. :lol:

In my mind I was thinking a Hereford bull on the angus. I'm sure I would be behind the curve if I had to move north of the Red River. :nod:

 

[Jabes0623]

Could very well be. I defer to someone that is familiar with that cross. May need to make sure it works in your local market. I remember years and years ago , dad had a Simmental bull. Got Easter Basket colored calves....but back then his cows had a little bit of this and a little of that. :lol:

In my mind I was thinking a Hereford bull on the angus. I'm sure I would be behind the curve if I had to move north of the Red River. :nod:

I'd say you're not far off at all. At this point the closest I've come to making up my mind was using Hereford X Angus (Hereford cows Angus bull) to produce Black Baldie heifers to use as my terminal cross. I still may go that route. From what I understand the Herefords are easier keepers, better momma's, & more fertile than Angus. I still haven't decided what bull I'd use on the baldies tho, if I do go that route.

As for the simmental angus cross that's what the Ohio State Extension office here runs so I know that cross works in my neck of the woods.

 

[cow pollinater]

I would go crossbred for sure. If it were me in your shoes I would start with proven cows and then breed either balancer or simangus with hereford in a two way cross. That way you have maximum heterosis from three popular breeds and you're consistently producing calves that are a high percentage english and bulls from both breeds are easy to come by. Look for homozygous black bulls on the simangus/balancer side to keep the calves high percentage black. I feel that that is about as close as you can get for a quiet, trouble free, fertile cow herd that produces a very desireable market calf.
To keep input costs low, have a defined calving season that targets about a month before your grass gets strong. That way you're only feeding hay to dry cows instead of trying to keep wet cows with calves in condition with hay.

 

[Jabes0623]

I've also considered Hereford cows bred to a red Gelbvieh bull for my maternal cross & then throwing a black bull of some flavor on them to produce the black calves the market demands at the moment. There's certainly a whole lot of options out there when it comes to breeds & crosses.

Either way I've all but decided to produce my own replacement heifers from Hereford cows crossed with something & then run a terminal operation with the offspring. There's a brand new $30 million beef processing plant being built next year about 30 minutes drive from my land, that was the biggest deciding factor for me. But I always like to seek advice from those older & wiser than me.

 

[Tiagodk]

I would go crossbred for sure. If it were me in your shoes I would start with proven cows and then breed either balancer or simangus with hereford in a two way cross. That way you have maximum heterosis from three popular breeds and you're consistently producing calves that are a high percentage english and bulls from both breeds are easy to come by. Look for homozygous black bulls on the simangus/balancer side to keep the calves high percentage black. I feel that that is about as close as you can get for a quiet, trouble free, fertile cow herd that produces a very desireable market calf.
To keep input costs low, have a defined calving season that targets about a month before your grass gets strong. That way you're only feeding hay to dry cows instead of trying to keep wet cows with calves in condition with hay.

Sorry for thhis newbie question. How do you crossbread?

 

[dun]

Sorry for thhis newbie question. How do you crossbread?

Mix rye with pupernickel

 

[cow pollinater]

Sorry for thhis newbie question. How do you crossbread?

Crossbreeding is the use of a sire and dam of different breeds. Angus cows with a hereford bulls, for example produce a crossbred calf. As long as both parent breeds are similar the crossbred calf will outperform a purebred. Crossbred cows also perform better than purebred cows.

 

[Jabes0623]

Sorry for thhis newbie question. How do you crossbread?

Mix rye with pupernickel

:lol: :clap: :lol:

 

[Tiagodk]

What breeds are similar to charolais? We have charolais cows (well my parents and i just help them in holidays but i'am getting more interested). I know that when they are in heat the cow stays at home and later comes a person give AI i think. So they probably already do the cross breeding thing right?
If we wanted to create a super cow(awesome genetics) what would be the way to go?

I know i can just ask all this to them and i will in 2 weeks, till then i just go fill up information in my brain. Been learning a lot here. They will think i'am not the same anymore must have been infected by the cow virus haha

 

[skyhightree1]

I have no desire to sell pure bred or direct sales to the public so in my case I would have spent more time at the sale barn and talking to the buyers to find out what they wanted me to raise and that is what I would raise. They are the one's buying your cattle so its only reasonable that you produce what they are needing to fill their orders.

good point