If it heads out it quits growing...

[Jogeephus]

Have you heard this as well? This is what I have always been told.

With our drought and all I just could not bring myself to cut hay and only get two rolls an acre just cause it had seed heads on it. It was/is gonna be a pretty poor year for hay anyway so I figured I'd just wait till it got big enough to be worthwhile. Gave it a secondary shot on N and finally got a shower. This is how it turned out, 6.4 rolls/acre (4x5). This should my second if not third cutting off this field but its only my first. :roll:

 

[dun]

When it goes into the repodcutive state it quits or might as well quit, until the repro stage stuff and some leave is removed.
One of the many cathes is that if you remove the repro stuff too early it will grow a little then go back repro again.

 

[IluvABbeef]

That is true because, like dun said but in a more lengthy and scientific way, once the plant starts heading out, a nasty little hormone called Apical Dominance is released by the inflorescence (seed-head) to stop all leaf growth so that all the plant's energy stores are used to develop the seed head from pre-bloom to completion of seed-formation. And once all that is done, it dies, only to be replaced by tillers growing into daughter plants.

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

 

[dun]

Most grasses are at their highest nuritinal value right around early foot stage. Alfalfa a little later but not much. If you're going to be feeding dry cows that over mature hay may just fit the bill. They don;t require as high of quality at that time. We feed our poorest hay first then feed the better stuff the closer to calving.

 

[Jogeephus]

I agree with most everything that is was said but am just making observations based on this situation. Under normal conditions I would not be raising my grass this way but we are desperate for hay so I'm looking outside the box a bit.

Apical dominance is a phenomenon caused by the hormone auxin. Auxin inhibits lateral shoot growth. Apparently, once the seed head is made, the production of auxin is reduced and lateral shoot growth can occur. I understand this very well in trees and shrubs but in grasses - I don't.

Probably 90% of the people I know told me it would quit growing while one friend - who raises turf grass and hay for a living - said it might slow down some but not to cut it until it was ready. According to him, grass will boot with environmental stress. We had drought as well as unseasonably cool nights which kicked the seed production. (He had a field under pivot that headed out early - cool nights.)

Anyway, using my neighbors hayfield that was cut when it seeded as a control plot, I should know the best route to go in three months.

As for the nutritional value, I would have prefered to have cut it sooner and it is not what I call feed hay, but it is hay and it beats getting 2.5 rolls an acre cause I can always supplement poor hay.

Using my friend's field as a control, I should have some good food for thought in a couple of months.

 

[Jogeephus]

According to him, grass will boot with environmental stress. We had drought as well as unseasonably cool nights which kicked the seed production.

This is the same thing our County Extension Agent mentioned. Many hay people mistakenly advise to cut your fine-stemmed grasses when they are from 15-18 inches tall. Since "environmental stress" can force a head at almost anytime, it would be wiser to say that we should cut those grasses at that height or before seedout.

Of course, Mother Nature doesn't care about when we want to cut. More rain expected this week! (Still not seeding out)

Ours seeded out at 5 inches. :shock: I just couldn't bring myself to cut it this year at that height. Did it last year and all I did was waste money and time. A bunch of folks fell right in and cut theirs and talk about having $50 per roll cost in it. I can't come out this way.

It is definitely not how I prefer to do things, but for those in a drought situation, I think it is worth cosidering.JMO

 

[mnmtranching]

On our cool season grasses that have been drought stressed like this year. Not worth cutting. Add fertilizer and good rain, will not head again, but will thicken with a lot of new leafy growth. The dried out stems, seed heads are low in nutrients. The new leafy growth is very good. Along with annuals like foxtails and other weeds, clover also fills in. This happens once in a while with luck and may get 3-4 tons per acre.

 

[Beefy]

i say go ahead and cut it and with this 10th of an inch we are getting every other week you may get some good regrowth soon.

 

[western]

On our cool season grasses that have been drought stressed like this year. Not worth cutting. Add fertilizer and good rain, will not head again, but will thicken with a lot of new leafy growth. The dried out stems, seed heads are low in nutrients. The new leafy growth is very good. Along with annuals like foxtails and other weeds, clover also fills in. This happens once in a while with luck and may get 3-4 tons per acre.

while weather is the most important, grasses can be different genetically (even the same varieties... like orchardgrass). Look for varieties that are LAMH (low aftermath heading). These are varieties that produce seed heads only ONCE and have very little seed head production after that (in one growing season). The good news is these LAMH varietie produce excellent leafy forage the "bad" news is they are more expensive to produce (for seed) because generally they producing less seed per arce. This make them a little more expensive to buy. However, we've found we'd rather have leafy forage then seed heads for the second and third cuttings.

 

[Mongoose]

Have you heard this as well? This is what I have always been told.

With our drought and all I just could not bring myself to cut hay and only get two rolls an acre just cause it had seed heads on it. It was/is gonna be a pretty poor year for hay anyway so I figured I'd just wait till it got big enough to be worthwhile. Gave it a secondary shot on N and finally got a shower. This is how it turned out, 6.4 rolls/acre (4x5). This should my second if not third cutting off this field but its only my first. :roll:

To get that many rolls per acre round here would be awesome. About how high was that stuff when you cut it?

 

[tytower]

This thread reminded me of a Passion Fruit vine I had ,stood about seven foot high and was 20 foot wide. Covered in leaf but no flowers or fruit. Couldn''t understand why not. An old friend said " give it a good hiding with a stick all over". Course I thought he was joking but he came round and whack away at it we did.

Within two weeks the first flowers were out and 6 weeks later or so we were eating fruit and lots of it from then on. Stress the plant he explained , they think they are going to die and get about reproducing in a hurry.

 

[Jogeephus]

Mongoose, it was about knee deep. I actually would have cut it a week earlier but I took a few days vacation. I normally can grow 5 bales/acre every 28 days but we haven't had much rain. This should be my third cutting off this field. (second in the very least)

 

[HAY MAKER]

Jogeephus,that's impressive,I have some sudan that has been headed 3 weeks,just been to wet to cut,I hope I do as well as you did.
I would rather have poor quality hay,than no hay,I plan on keeping the lick tanks full this winter ;-)
good luck

 

[cowtrek]

Yep been in this boat before. In it now matter of fact. Last year I couldn't cut hay on time because it was just too short and thin to waste diesel cutting it becausee of the drought, this year I can't get enough dry weather to get out there and do it. I hate getting hay rained on and I'd rather wait a couple weeks if necessary for better weather than see it ruined by rain. Yes it does hurt the quality but not as much as getting it cut and rained on for 3-4 days. You basically trade quality for quantity.

My Dallis and bahia was seeding out a couple weeks ago but it's been so wet I couldn't even think about cutting it. Now the seedheads are lodging over and the leaves have taken off growing again, with all the rain. Looks like I'll only get one cut off this field this year because it's getting so late, but hey at least it's doing the roots some good and the stuff is nearly waist high so I should get some tonnage out of it. I also see a lot of native bluestem coming in and other native grass emerging from underneath it so it's looking pretty good, actually. Benefit of a mixed stand.

Had a customer that wasn't kinda nervous because I couldn't justify spending the fuel or time to cut his place last year because there just wasn't enough out there in the drought. It went to seed and then when the rain came it came on out and did pretty well, got late season hay and he was happy and I was too, since it made well enough to pay to go bale it for him.

One thing I've noticed, though, even when having to bale short drought stressed grass for hay, is that it seems to be more nutritious. No I don't have any test numbers to back this up, just experience, but I've seen cattle grazing short burned up grass and eating hay from short burned up grass and I've seen them do better on it than I thought they would. Grandpa always said that the nutrients were 'concentrated' more in drought stressed hay and grass and that was the reason. Good an explanation as any I guess. Sorta makes sense when you think about how nitrates can concentrate in drought stressed grass on heavily fertilized fields, too. Anyway... Take it easy! OL JR

 

[cowtrek]

Jogeephus,that's impressive,I have some sudan that has been headed 3 weeks,just been to wet to cut,I hope I do as well as you did.
I would rather have poor quality hay,than no hay,I plan on keeping the lick tanks full this winter ;-)
good luck

Sorry to hear that... small grasses hold up a lot better to late cutting than sudax. Hay grazer just seems to turn to cardboard if you can't get it cut before heading, from my experience. Still, beats no hay at all, and if you can get a later cut of shorter high quality grazer you can feed it together to split the difference. Good luck! OL JR

 

[Jogeephus]

One thing I've noticed, though, even when having to bale short drought stressed grass for hay, is that it seems to be more nutritious. No I don't have any test numbers to back this up, just experience, but I've seen cattle grazing short burned up grass and eating hay from short burned up grass and I've seen them do better on it than I thought they would. Grandpa always said that the nutrients were 'concentrated' more in drought stressed hay and grass and that was the reason. Good an explanation as any I guess. Sorta makes sense when you think about how nitrates can concentrate in drought stressed grass on heavily fertilized fields, too. Anyway... Take it easy! OL JR

The hay I grow is bermuda so I limit what I say to it. But I've thought the same thing was plausible. In a normal year, if it goes to seed before you cut it the bottom third or so of the stem will be brown. These delayed cuttings were green all the way down and turned out some pretty color. (Now I did hit them with a second dose of N after 2 months of no rain, but when the rain did come it grew 18+ inches in two weeks) Personally, I judge my hay by a water test. If in the winter I can take a handfull of hay out of the center of the roll and stick it in a bucket of water and it comes out looking like fresh spring cut grass - I feel like I did my job. This will do that for sure.

 

[hurleyjd]

One thing I've noticed, though, even when having to bale short drought stressed grass for hay, is that it seems to be more nutritious. No I don't have any test numbers to back this up, just experience, but I've seen cattle grazing short burned up grass and eating hay from short burned up grass and I've seen them do better on it than I thought they would. Grandpa always said that the nutrients were 'concentrated' more in drought stressed hay and grass and that was the reason. Good an explanation as any I guess. Sorta makes sense when you think about how nitrates can concentrate in drought stressed grass on heavily fertilized fields, too. Anyway... Take it easy! OL JR

The hay I grow is bermuda so I limit what I say to it. But I've thought the same thing was plausible. In a normal year, if it goes to seed before you cut it the bottom third or so of the stem will be brown. These delayed cuttings were green all the way down and turned out some pretty color. (Now I did hit them with a second dose of N after 2 months of no rain, but when the rain did come it grew 18+ inches in two weeks) Personally, I judge my hay by a water test. If in the winter I can take a handfull of hay out of the center of the roll and stick it in a bucket of water and it comes out looking like fresh spring cut grass - I feel like I did my job. This will do that for sure.

I just cut some coastal this week. It was about 24 inches high and no heads. Only seed heads were bahia.The grass was very leafy and green. I had fertilezed about the middle of June. I have some more grass to cut if the weather allows. Coastal and bahia this will be on a place that had crimson go to seed and then apache clover go to seed. The grass just keeps growing and not seeding. I think as long as the fertilty is there the grass will just keep growing. Once what ever is gone that keeps it growing, and then you will have the seed heads and such.