Ideas to catch "wild" cows

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SBMF 2015 said:
There's a guy around here that goes around catching wild cows. His pretty good, if you don't care what the cow looks like after his dogs are done.
He used to haul stuff he caught to the sale barn. I asked him one day how it was going? " Not worth a dam. We killed two dogs and gored a horse getting these caught "
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That is the reality of the deal. Not every cow respects a horse or a cow. A brahman cow will run dead in to a pipe wall and literally kill themselves. You think they care about a horse, dog, or 5 wire fence. 🤣
 
Brute 23 said:
That is the reality of the deal. Not every cow respects a horse or a cow. A brahman cow will run dead in to a pipe wall and literally kill themselves. You think they care about a horse, dog, or 5 wire fence. 🤣
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And there is the reason why people who don't live where brahman is need to beat the heat don't raise them.
 
Pure Brahman cattle are not inherently wild. In fact they can be extremely tame.
They do have a higher intelligence than other cattle and many cowboys. They can tell when your up to no good and remember bad experience. This leads to most problems.
Now when you start crossing them with other breeds.... sometimes screws come lose.
 
Here cattle that are genetically prone to being idiots are just not turned out. Be that breed or bloodline. Individuals who become idiots get a one way trip to town or maybe straight to the plant. Individuals who behave that way can pop up in any breed. Hospital bills are way more expensive than good critters. That applies to both cattle and horses.
 
RDFF said:
Ayuh... the cold up north helps keep the riff-raff out..............;)
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The other day I was getting a hair cut. The barber was talking about all the homeless people in Portland. I said there are three reasons we don't have homeless in Baker County. He stepped back and said what are those? I replied, December, January, and February.
 
Nick Wagner said:
Cattle can sense fear. You can not be afraid of them. As you stated, get them used to a feed bucket or hay cubes. If he can't overcome his fear, pay someone to do it. And it takes good gates to hold wild cattle, especially after they've learned they can go through them. He is looking at a significant investment of time and or materials. Might consider dropping them in the field if they are that wild.
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gentle cattle can be just as bad once they have gone through a fence or knocked panels over.

if you are going to trap them, the first order of business is a stout, tall enough pen. find some instructions for rigging up a trigger gate. let them get used to going in before setting it, or have an exit trigger as well. (if you do this make sure none get stuck without water - best trap has water and feed with no other water access in pasture) after they are used to using the new entrance you can try to set the trigger. there will always be some stubborn *$%@#s that wont go in for a long time but it will work eventually...or somebody that knows what they are doing can rope them. don't know how easy those guys are to find back east, they are a little too common out here. 🤬
 
Brute 23 said:
It doesn't matter what animal you are dealing with... you have to be smarter than it or it will win. Most people won't admit that and chose to just to choose to blame it on the animal rather than their lack of intelligence.
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Totally agree. Ever notice the signature on my posts?
 
Dave said:
These dogs will convince a cow to cooperate. We can do this the easy way or the hard way.
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Brute 23 said:
That only works with cattle who want to cooperate with dogs.
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You are so right about that, Brute. Saw one the neighbor's plummer cows standing in the corner of my 30 acre Bermuda hayfield. His fence bordered oneside of my field, and I had the other 3 sides fenced, to keep my cows and horses off of it.. Anyhow, I was headed to town, and stopped by where he worked and told him. We decided to meet there after he got off work,( about 5 PM) and move her back to his side, fix the fence where she got in, etc . I went over there that afternoon, saddled up and rode down to where she was standing, which was exactly where she was standing that morning. I rode the fence bordering our two places, looking for where the fence was down, but didn't see anyplace. Figured she had jumped in. I figured I would just ride up and ease her down the fence back toward my arena, and if we went by the place she had jumped in, she might jump back in. If not, I'd just put her in my arena and let him come get her with his trailer. Got up to her and saw a calf, looked to be a day or 2 old lying on the ground. She was very protective of it, and when I rode up to it, the calf stood up, all wobbly, then fell back down. It's butt, navel, and a bad wound on its neck were all covered in maggots. So, I rode back to the barn, saddled another horses, went in the house and called the ole lady to tell my son to come over to help me. I knew there was no way to drive that calf the nearly 3/4ths of a mile that was the length of that field. I was going to head and heel the cow, while the neighbor put the calf in the back of his truck and took it back to my arena. I knew we could drive the cow if the calf was in back...she'd probably just follow along behind the truck.

Well when I rode back out to the hayfield, Junior( the neighbor) had gotten there, and there was another boy with him that had some damned dogs. I knew him...he was famous locally for catching hogs, and beating the hell out of his dogs, his horses, and his ole lady. I rode up and told Junior what my plan was...and was waiting for my son to get there. He said " That's ok, Steve ( the asshole with the dogs) is going to catch her with his dogs. They will bring them back and put them right in your corral". That boy told his blue heeler and this other dog he had..1/2 Catoula and 1/2 Australian Shephard.... good looking dog.. to " Go get them". He had a 1/2 pitbull 1/2 American bull dog tied on back of his truck that I knew he used as a catch dog for hogs. I told Junior that that cow wasn;t gonna leave that calf, and the calf couldn't walk. So the dogs weren't gonna be able to do anything, as the dogs tore pout across the hayfield.
Heeler got there first and ran up on the cow from behind, She kicked him about 20 feet down the field... right in the head.. and the dog just layed there with his legs stiff and his back arched backwards...convulsing like an epilectic. Vet said later on that his brain was swelling inside his skull , and caused that.

The other dog was running to her head, but veered at the last minute to go after the calf when she saw it laying there. The cow caught her broad side, and just grounded her into the dirt...kneeling on the dog and putting all of her weight on it. It never moved from the spot where the cow got her. We guess its back was broken, and probably ribs punctured a lung, as blood oozed out of its mouth and nose.

So, A$$hole decided to turn his bully loose. It came charging down the field, obviously going after the cow's nose. She speared him ( actually, lowered her head and he speared himself) right where his neck came out of his chest. Picked him up, and slung him off her horns, He took off running back, bellering and yelping, and got maybe 30 yards before he fell dead. We figured he bled out internally. So, THEN me and my son caught the cow, Junior and A$$hole loaded the calf and the dead and dying dogs on the truck. I took the heel rope off, and just got behind her. My son left the head rope on and we started behind the truck to the arena. But, as I figured, we didn't need the rope on her...she trotted right behind that truck bellering for her baby.

You are 100% correct @Brute 23 , a dog can only work with a cow that will let it. That's why I don't want none around me working cattle. Get the dogs involved, and it usually goes to hell in a hand basket. Now, I have a friend that used to buy a lot of hay from me. He raised Angus and Herefords, cow-calf. He kept a couple of border collies, and I really liked the way they worked. He'd use them in his working pens, etc., to help him sort. They were quiet, easy going dogs, that worked very well in a situation like that. Blue Heelers are useless for anything except going to the rodeos with the barrel racers. Australian shephards, are good for catching Frisbees. Catoulas make pretty good dogs for wild hog hunting.
 
Warren Allison said:
You are so right about that, Brute. Saw one the neighbor's plummer cows standing in the corner of my 30 acre Bermuda hayfield. His fence bordered oneside of my field, and I had the other 3 sides fenced, to keep my cows and horses off of it.. Anyhow, I was headed to town, and stopped by where he worked and told him. We decided to meet there after he got off work,( about 5 PM) and move her back to his side, fix the fence where she got in, etc . I went over there that afternoon, saddled up and rode down to where she was standing, which was exactly where she was standing that morning. I rode the fence bordering our two places, looking for where the fence was down, but didn't see anyplace. Figured she had jumped in. I figured I would just ride up and ease her down the fence back toward my arena, and if we went by the place she had jumped in, she might jump back in. If not, I'd just put her in my arena and let him come get her with his trailer. Got up to her and saw a calf, looked to be a day or 2 old lying on the ground. She was very protective of it, and when I rode up to it, the calf stood up, all wobbly, then fell back down. It's butt, navel, and a bad wound on its neck were all covered in maggots. So, I rode back to the barn, saddled another horses, went in the house and called the ole lady to tell my son to come over to help me. I knew there was no way to drive that calf the nearly 3/4ths of a mile that was the length of that field. I was going to head and heel the cow, while the neighbor put the calf in the back of his truck and took it back to my arena. I knew we could drive the cow if the calf was in back...she'd probably just follow along behind the truck.

Well when I rode back out to the hayfield, Junior( the neighbor) had gotten there, and there was another boy with him that had some damned dogs. I knew him...he was famous locally for catching hogs, and beating the hell out of his dogs, his horses, and his ole lady. I rode up and told Junior what my plan was...and was waiting for my son to get there. He said " That's ok, Steve ( the asshole with the dogs) is going to catch her with his dogs. They will bring them back and put them right in your corral". That boy told his blue heeler and this other dog he had..1/2 Catoula and 1/2 Australian Shephard.... good looking dog.. to " Go get them". He had a 1/2 pitbull 1/2 American bull dog tied on back of his truck that I knew he used as a catch dog for hogs. I told Junior that that cow wasn;t gonna leave that calf, and the calf couldn't walk. So the dogs weren't gonna be able to do anything, as the dogs tore pout across the hayfield.
Heeler got there first and ran up on the cow from behind, She kicked him about 20 feet down the field... right in the head.. and the dog just layed there with his legs stiff and his back arched backwards...convulsing like an epilectic. Vet said later on that his brain was swelling inside his skull , and caused that.

The other dog was running to her head, but veered at the last minute to go after the calf when she saw it laying there. The cow caught her broad side, and just grounded her into the dirt...kneeling on the dog and putting all of her weight on it. It never moved from the spot where the cow got her. We guess its back was broken, and probably ribs punctured a lung, as blood oozed out of its mouth and nose.

So, A$$hole decided to turn his bully loose. It came charging down the field, obviously going after the cow's nose. She speared him ( actually, lowered her head and he speared himself) right where his neck came out of his chest. Picked him up, and slung him off her horns, He took off running back, bellering and yelping, and got maybe 30 yards before he fell dead. We figured he bled out internally. So, THEN me and my son caught the cow, Junior and A$$hole loaded the calf and the dead and dying dogs on the truck. I took the heel rope off, and just got behind her. My son left the head rope on and we started behind the truck to the arena. But, as I figured, we didn't need the rope on her...she trotted right behind that truck bellering for her baby.

You are 100% correct @Brute 23 , a dog can only work with a cow that will let it. That's why I don't want none around me working cattle. Get the dogs involved, and it usually goes to hell in a hand basket. Now, I have a friend that used to buy a lot of hay from me. He raised Angus and Herefords, cow-calf. He kept a couple of border collies, and I really liked the way they worked. He'd use them in his working pens, etc., to help him sort. They were quiet, easy going dogs, that worked very well in a situation like that. Blue Heelers are useless for anything except going to the rodeos with the barrel racers. Australian shephards, are good for catching Frisbees. Catoulas make pretty good dogs for wild hog hunting.
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I once had a Border Collie from one of the top breeders in the world. His grand-daddy was a reserve world champion in the sheepdog trials. Got him as an 8 week old pup. Couldn't keep him away from wanting to "work" the cattle even as a young pup.......... instinct. If I went in for breakfast, I had to tie him outside the house, or he'd head right back down to the cattle pens and start working. He was just absolutely crazy to be "working" animals (or cars.......... they're the breed of dog mostly likely to be run over by a car, because they ALWAYS want to head off anything that's moving basically). Border Collies are BRED and specifically SELECTED for their natural instinct to want to "head an animal off"... (in the breed, it's called "eye".......... they read those pressure points, and they're whole goal is to maintain control over that animal and keep it contained and "grouped up" with that "eye".......... they see their handler as the "alpha" in the "pack"... and they're the "subordinates"... to do the "alpha's" bidding). With the really good ones, it'll almost seem like they're on drugs, they're so insanely wired up, and that "eye" is so strong in 'em. They simply WON'T chase 'em, and they are selectively bred for their natural instinct to work on the opposite side of the "herd" from where the handler is. If you don't understand 'em, they'll drive you crazy. People who want a "heeler" to "drive" critters just can't work with them at all. They're also selectively bred to work "silent", so getting one to bark at a crazy cow, for example, is nigh onto impossible. They generally won't nip enough to draw blood either, but they'll snap their teeth real aggressively right under the cows dewclaws. That's so that they don't tear up the sheep. THAT drove me crazy, cause I had a hard time getting my "Buff" to be as aggressive as I wanted him to be.... but once he got rolled a few times as a youngster, he learned to become a little more aggressive with them.... Cows are a lot bigger, and can be a lot more aggressive than sheep obviously... and the dog needs to learn to stand up to 'em, or they'll win every time.

Anyway, he learned to work the cattle, and I could do just about anything with him................................ but my cousin, who was used to working cattle with our German Shepherds that would tear 'em up and hang on their tails and chase 'em all over the place uncontrollably........... just couldn't understand how that Border Collie instinct was supposed to work to your benefit. He never did learn it.......... and I preferred to NOT let him work with Buff, because he was always yelling at him, even though Buff was doing what he was bred to do............ my cousin just didn't understand the instinct, and then didn't use it to his advantage.

If a cow is running away from you, do you want a dog whose instinct is to CHASE the crap out of that animal, or one whose instinct is to circle around and HEAD off that animal, and bring it back up to you, and hold it there? Do you want to be working those cattle from the rear WITH the dog, or do you want to go up and hold the gate, and ask the dog to just quietly bring the cattle up and through it.............. THAT'S their naturally bred in instinct.......... I'll take one of those every day.

Much as I loved that Border Collie and miss him, today I don't have a cattle dog, and I don't want one. My cattle will about follow me anywhere..... because I'm rotationally grazing them, and they're used to me moving them every day. Most of the time, I just open the gate, and walk ahead of 'em, and they follow me right in.
 
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RDFF said:
I once had a Border Collie from one of the top breeders in the world. His grand-daddy was a reserve world champion in the sheepdog trials. Got him as an 8 week old pup. Couldn't keep him away from wanting to "work" the cattle even as a young pup.......... instinct. If I went in for breakfast, I had to tie him outside the house, or he'd head right back down to the cattle pens and start working. He was just absolutely crazy to be "working" animals (or cars.......... they're the breed of dog mostly likely to be run over by a car, because they ALWAYS want to head off anything that's moving basically). Border Collies are BRED and specifically SELECTED for their natural instinct to want to "head an animal off"... (in the breed, it's called "eye".......... they read those pressure points, and they're whole goal is to maintain control over that animal and keep it contained and "grouped up" with that "eye".......... they see their handler as the "alpha" in the "pack"... and they're the "subordinates"... to do the "alpha's" bidding). With the really good ones, it'll almost seem like they're on drugs, they're so insanely wired up, and that "eye" is so strong in 'em. They simply WON'T chase 'em, and they are selectively bred for their natural instinct to work on the opposite side of the "herd" from where the handler is. If you don't understand 'em, they'll drive you crazy. People who want a "heeler" to "drive" critters just can't work with them at all. They're also selectively bred to work "silent", so getting one to bark at a crazy cow, for example, is nigh onto impossible. They generally won't nip enough to draw blood either, but they'll snap their teeth real aggressively right under the cows dewclaws. That's so that they don't tear up the sheep. THAT drove me crazy, cause I had a hard time getting my "Buff" to be as aggressive as I wanted him to be.... but once he got rolled a few times as a youngster, he learned to become a little more aggressive with them.... Cows are a lot bigger, and can be a lot more aggressive than sheep obviously... and the dog needs to learn to stand up to 'em, or they'll win every time.

Anyway, he learned to work the cattle, and I could do just about anything with him................................ but my cousin, who was used to working cattle with our German Shepherds that would tear 'em up and hang on their tails and chase 'em all over the place uncontrollably........... just couldn't understand how that Border Collie instinct was supposed to work to your benefit. He never did learn it.......... and I preferred to NOT let him work with Buff, because he was always yelling at him, even though Buff was doing what he was bred to do............ my cousin just didn't understand the instinct, and then didn't use it to his advantage.

If a cow is running away from you, do you want a dog whose instinct is to CHASE the crap out of that animal, or one whose instinct is to circle around and HEAD off that animal, and bring it back up to you, and hold it there? Do you want to be working those cattle from the rear WITH the dog, or do you want to go up and hold the gate, and ask the dog to just quietly bring the cattle up and through it.............. THAT'S their naturally bred in instinct.......... I'll take one of those every day.

Much as I loved that Border Collie and miss him, today I don't have a cattle dog, and I don't want one. My cattle will about follow me anywhere..... because I'm rotationally grazing them, and they're used to me moving them every day. Most of the time, I just open the gate, and walk ahead of 'em, and they follow me right in.
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I have a 10 month old pup who is half Border Collie and half Idaho Shag. There is 35 head of 4 weight calves in the corral out front. That pup will put them all into the loafing shed and hold them there. This happens 5 - 6 times a day. Yell at her to get out of the corral and she comes right out. Just as happy as she had good sense. I am forking hay into the feed bunk or in the pen putting grain in the feeder I have to keep one eye on Patty because she sure wants to help.
When I commented earlier about the neighbor riding through a pasture with 6 dogs gathering every cow there is there. Well my pup's parents are two of those dogs. She is smart as a whip and can flat out fly when she needs to move.
I have watched the neighbors dogs at work a number of times. One impressive time we had moved 150 cows and young calves about 3 miles. We were holding them to mother up in a 2 acre open area surrounded by shoulder high sage brush. Four people horse back at the corners and 3 dogs patrolling the perimeter. The riders sat there quiet. Anytime a cow tried to wander off a dog would put her back into the herd. No biting or barking. Just get on the correct side of the cow and give her the eye until she moved back to the herd. No one gave a command to the dogs they just did it. After about half an hour all the calves had found their mother and we all rode off.
 

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