Rydero
Well-known member
I don't use this particular software but...it's saying your energy and protein are both low for the type of animal you have entered. You'd have to substitute feeds with higher energy and protein for the hay to balance it.
I want to learn more about nutrition
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Rydero
Well-known member
Do you really get 32% protein for $500/ton? Seems awfully low.
Dave
Well-known member
It is telling you that both your TDN and crude protein are low. You energy is also low. They were just starting to come up with the energy when I was studying animal nutrition in college so I don't entirely get how that works in calculating it. But they are basically telling you that your ration won't increase your herd BCS the way you want it to.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
How about the bahiagrass hay for $20 a ton
Rydero
Well-known member
Haha I have no idea what bahiagrass even is but I've seen people kid themselves that they make hay for that amount if they do it themselves with paid for equipment and don't factor in labour, land costs etc. So I left it alone. I don't know anyone making protein licks, they all buy them. Usually approaching $1/lb here. That's expensive to up the TDN .1 and protein .8% in my books - too expensive.
Lisagrantb
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The hay is free to me all I invest is fertilizer. All equipment paid for and in good shape and distance to travel from hay field to where it's stored to pasture is less than 1/4 mile and no public roads to worry about. Had hay tested and the protein was 8.4% the program uses 8. My tubes are 30% not 32 that the program has but it was the closest one. The tubs are $50/ 200lb. There kinda soft so I had to cut a heavy steel plate to put in the tub to slow their intake. Other than that there good
I paid $460 a ton for 38% cubes bagged.
Off the top of my head it will take 3 to 5 lbs a day of that 30% tub or similar product to balance your hay.
Rydero
Well-known member
Way cheaper than we get it for but it's still expensive. At 4 lbs a day .92/h/d (it must be less there because it isn't cold) which is over half what it costs to feed cows here for only 4lbs of the ration. It also won't address the shortage of energy adequately either.
i thought i would repost this since it didn't get any bites before. i would like for those who know more than i do about these things to give an opinion(which is most probably) and also what about Vitamin D? If its impossible for people to get enough at this latitude this time of year, what about cattle?
Lucky_P
Well-known member
DDG with 27% CP is $210/Ton at the local ethanol plant at the moment. That's right around 10 cents/lb... considerably cheaper than any tub or block... but you don't just go kick it out of the back of the pickup.
Depending on how crappy the hay we were able to purchase was, in any given year, we have fed anywhere from 5 to 15 lbs DDG/hd/day to supplement the 25-27# of mixed grass hay fed/cow/day. Significantly higher amounts of energy and protein are needed to meet the requirements for lactating, fall-calving cows. Comparatively, bred 'dry' cows can 'coast' with quite a bit less inputs - but if you're calving in cold weather, calf survivability will take a major downturn if your cows are protein-deficient in the last trimester.
Cattle synthesize Vit C in their liver. Virtually any Vit C you might provide in a dietary supplement will be destroyed by rumen microorganisms... so, unless you feel some bizarre need to inject cattle daily with an injectable Vit C preparation...
During 'sunny' seasons, cattle synthesize adequate Vit D, but we do know that they probably move into a deficient state in winter, and supplementation is helpful, though I doubt that many, if any beef producers do more than what may be in a mineral supplement... I know I never gave it a thought.
Depending on how crappy the hay we were able to purchase was, in any given year, we have fed anywhere from 5 to 15 lbs DDG/hd/day to supplement the 25-27# of mixed grass hay fed/cow/day. Significantly higher amounts of energy and protein are needed to meet the requirements for lactating, fall-calving cows. Comparatively, bred 'dry' cows can 'coast' with quite a bit less inputs - but if you're calving in cold weather, calf survivability will take a major downturn if your cows are protein-deficient in the last trimester.
Cattle synthesize Vit C in their liver. Virtually any Vit C you might provide in a dietary supplement will be destroyed by rumen microorganisms... so, unless you feel some bizarre need to inject cattle daily with an injectable Vit C preparation...
During 'sunny' seasons, cattle synthesize adequate Vit D, but we do know that they probably move into a deficient state in winter, and supplementation is helpful, though I doubt that many, if any beef producers do more than what may be in a mineral supplement... I know I never gave it a thought.
Thanks for addressing that. i was just thinking of maybe giving a vitamin c injection at the time of a pinkeye treatment....say along with an eye patch, or shot of draxxin, just maybe to speed the healing process.
Rydero
Well-known member
You're definitely right you can't kick ddg's off the back of a pickup. The fact it's convenient is extremely valuable to a lot of producers so based on the cost difference alone I'm sure not many would stop using licks. I'm curious though how many of them have plugged the info into ration software and seen how little it helps actually balance a ration. I find it concerning now that I know when someone thinks they can throw a few licks out and feed terrible hay.
I applaud the original poster (and anyone else) for wanting to learn how to feed cattle properly. Feed testing and good software can save a lot of wrecks and lost production.
Karin
Well-known member
How are the cows in lactation with a 1-month old calf and 8-months pregnant?? Never heard of that happening before... 
First, check your animal type, get that fixed up. Make sure average cow weight is on par too so you're not underselling yourself on feed.
A lactating cow should be a minimum of 11% protein. Energy needs to be bumped up too. Is the 32-0-0 mix getting fed with some grain or no? With rumensin, or no? In my (limited) experience working on beef rations, a 32-0-0 mix is best when fed with grain to be more effective.
First, check your animal type, get that fixed up. Make sure average cow weight is on par too so you're not underselling yourself on feed.
A lactating cow should be a minimum of 11% protein. Energy needs to be bumped up too. Is the 32-0-0 mix getting fed with some grain or no? With rumensin, or no? In my (limited) experience working on beef rations, a 32-0-0 mix is best when fed with grain to be more effective.
Dave
Well-known member
Figure out what is cheap in your area and start adding or subtracting from your ration to get the numbers to balance. Low on energy add a little corn. If corn is too expensive add what ever you can get in your area. I know for me, I would take those tubs out and limit feed alfalfa to increase the protein but here there is lots of alfalfa available a whole lot cheaper than those tubs.
Silver
Well-known member
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, nearly every ailment has a genetic link, pinkeye included. Back when I had Herefords we bought a bull with a red ring around his eyes, had tremendously fewer cases of pinkeye in his offspring. I don't remember treating a case in the angus. Before I get beat up, I've heard of pinkeye in angus, just don't remember having to treat one of mine for it.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
@Nick Wagner pigmentation deflects the suns rays and "helps" prevent pinkeye. Also, they claim heavy lids that shade the eye help ??
Part of the reason Herefords started breeding for the goggle eyes that the Simmentals had.
Part of the reason Herefords started breeding for the goggle eyes that the Simmentals had.
Dave
Well-known member
I had a vet one time tell me that 80% of the cases he worked on were nutrition related.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Yes, I think it was the pigmentation that helped. Inherited from their sire. We sure did a lot of doctoring back then compared to what I do now.
