I need advise & opinions

[Hondac]

I am very inexperienced when it comes to health issues with cattle. We are entering our 4th spring with our small herd of 25 cows and a bull. Up until this year, we have never (knock on wood) had any problems with our calves or cows. Although my record keeping early on was limited at best, I think we
have lost only 1 calf and no cows prior to this year. This year is a different story. Here are some of the
symptoms we're dealing with along with some issues which may , or may not, be contributing factors.

Lost a 10 day old calf about a month ago from what might have been lack of milk.
Lost a week old calf a few days ago. When found, it was covered in what appeared to be green scours.
Currently have a very good looking young cow (probably about a month away from calving) which is
sick. She is staying away from the rest of the herd. Have tried a couple of times to get her up to no
avail. I have forced her to the pond twice (she drank both times), but will not eat feed carried to
her. She won't let me get close enough to her to give her a shot.
Currently have 15 young calves on the ground from one week to 2 months old. For the most part, all of
these calves look under nourished to my untrained eye. Of all the cows, I only have 2 which I would consider not to be in very good shape coming out of winter from an appearance stand point.

The herd has been, and is being, fed all the hay they want from our hay harvest of 2011. This is fescue and clover hay which has been stored outside.

We keep salt and hi-mag minerals available at all times.

We feed 200 pounds of 12 % sweet feed once a week to gather the small herd and keep them tame.

There is a small oil well on the property. The state makes the well operator dig a pit near the well for environmental reasons. I did discover some water and an oil sheen in this pit along with tracks into the pit which tells me some of the cattle have been in the pit. After discovering this, I fenced off
the pit over the weekend.

Could the oil pit be my problem?
Do I need to be giving the cows something to increase milk production?

I am a novice about this stuff and would appreciate your suggestions.

 

[chippie]

You didn't mention your de-worming program, but if I were you, I would pen all of the cattle and get your veterinarian out there before things get worse.

Chances are your hay may have lost much of it's nutritional value and 200 lbs of feed a week for 25 cattle is a drop in the bucket if they are losing condition. Good luck with them.

 

[bse]

Everything chippie said with hay that old kept outside you probably need to supplement with some tubs or something.
the cow thats staying away possibly could be getting ready to calve depending on how many days shes been doing this i have 1 she will average 3 days away while she is calving guess she wants her alone time.

 

[Limomike]

I agree with chippie. Might want to get em up and have the vet take a look at all of them before you lose anymore. (especially that young pregnant momma)
Just right off, I would say the oil pit COULD have been part of the problem, good thing you got it fenced off. Then, I would also say your cows need more feed than 200 lbs a week, and a higher protein content like 2lbs per cow daily of 20%.

 

[aprille218]

Also a water tank/ stock tank with fresh water not a pond will limit the transfer of parasites and eliminate the oil contamination in it.

 

[Hondac]

Thanks all for the ideas. I'll be putting some protein tubs out today to hopefully help the cows give more milk. In addition to the 2 ponds on the place, the cattle have access to fresh water from a spring. They tend to go to the water source which is closest to where they are grazing. Also, we should start to see some good growth in our fescue withing the next couple of weeks. Would I need to continue with the protein tubs after that?

 

[greybeard]

Early growth spring forage is mostly water. Squirts are likely. Keep some hay out--they may prefer the green stuff but keep some hay out anyway.
Tubs? Dunno. I have one out but mine hardly touch it.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

What is your vaccination program?

Are there any other cattle in bordering pastures?

There are any number of diseases which could have played a role in your losses, which would be covered by vaccination.

As mentioned before, a deworming program is also essential.

I have come to the point where I do not want any more ponds and creeks. I think that they cause more problems than they are worth for the smaller ranch such as mine. Many diseases can lurk in the ponds, some of those only have to enter the skin thru a small cut.

I would put out the lick tubs. Also, it seems that it would be more effective to feed more frequently than once a week, if you are trying to put on condition. I would attempt to separate the nursing cows and the thin cows and feed them separately on a daily basis, at the rate of 5# per head, at least a 20% cube.

I don't know much about fescue but have read that it causes problems ....maybe someone else more familiar with fescue can chime in.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Did you get your hay tested? We have ours tested every year (bale our own hay), and last year because of the drought our hay was horrible. Normally we run about 10% protein on fescue mix hay, this year it was 4%. Our cows have had a rough winter, with the fall calvers thinner than I like. We have had a real problem with scours this spring calving group, with ALL calves breaking out with scours just days after birth.
Maybe a little late for this year, but you might want to test it this spring. It cost us $14 and the data you get back is worth it!

 

[B&M Farms]

As chippie said get a vet out. The tubs are a waste of money if you can feed every day. What is the quality of your hay and how much are you feeding? Feeding 20% cubes with no more than 10% fiber at 2 to 3 pounds a day should be good with low quality hay. No one here could tell you for sure if the oil in the pit hurt them. Just because they were in it doesn't mean they drank from it. Maybe a vet can help. As far as pond and creek water go, if I had to water my cows from tap water, they would be gone.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You can get 1000 opinions and postulation. Everything said by everyone who has posted is valid and should be considered.

A good vet can resolve your issues. That puts your herd back in to production and back in to the profit margins. You can't sell those dead calves.

As far as that one hanging off to herself, many of mine do that prior to calving. It is just their nature. #11 hung off by herself 3 weeks prior to calving and 1 week afterwards. She does it every year.

 

[Hondac]

We started a vacination program last fall. Prior to that, these cows had not been "worked" forever. My son went with the recommendations of our local co-op. It makes me wonder if I would have been better off leaving them alone since I had had no problems. But, anyway, we put in a working facility and squeeze chute last summer, so might as well do the program.

 

[chippie]

They could still be loaded with parasites.
No one here can see your cattle. Get the vet out to look at them and get samples. I bet that the vet will not charge you the same price that a cow will bring. So you can lose $1k + or spend a couple of hundred (maybe less) and find out what you need to do to get your cattle back in shape.
Or you can save a nickel and let everyone second guess what is your problem.

 

[Banjo]

We started a vacination program last fall. Prior to that, these cows had not been "worked" forever. My son went with the recommendations of our local co-op. It makes me wonder if I would have been better off leaving them alone since I had had no problems. But, anyway, we put in a working facility and squeeze chute last summer, so might as well do the program.

Sounds like you are starting to think too much...thats a good thing. You will have a calf die of starvation ocasionally....not many.....if calving in cold weather. The cows teats will get tender from the cold or whatever else and everytime the calf tries to nurse she moves away, if you don't catch it in time and get them up and make her stand still, the calf will starve. It happens.

 

[HDRider]

Can you give us an update?

 

[Hondac]

I wasn't able to get the sick cow up for treatment. However, she seems to be doing much better now. She is running with the rest of the cattle and eating well. I put out a protein lick tub (30 %) about 8 days ago where my salt and mineral feeders are. I observed several cows check out the tub but , so far, not any of the tub has been consumed. Makes no sense to me. We are starting to get some grass growth and still setting out plenty of hay. Have not lost any other calves.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Tubs work best near the water source. The amount they consume at a time depends on the tub. if it is a high moisture content they will consume fast, a drier tub will be slower. as with all new things in cattle it will take time for them to get on it. Sprinkle some pellets or grain on it...what ever you gave them ot get them started.
As well talk to a nutritionist, you might need to change up your mineral, and to take advantage of their knowledge in how much pellets to feed to get them back up to snuff. Too much too fast or too long and they will end up putting it on themselves in fat rather than on the calf which will reduce milk production. I live in a cold country. We go through alot of feed. Our pellets are between 12 and 14%. Quality is another matter. The cheaper the pellet, by the ton, the more grain screenings. If we fed 20% even on a thin cow, we would see about 5 to 7 % out the back end...a waste of $. A good quality ration will have mineral already in it as well as rummensin or another equivalent product to boost the feed conversion to energy. Pellets ( maybe you call it differently. It is a mixture of grains and stuff crushed and formed into these round pellet like things) are a more cost efficient way to get feed value into your cows over tubs. But by the same token steamed rolled barely or oats with molasis is better feed per ton than pellets.
How is their poop. A year or so ago a did a post on cows poop and what it means. Go find it and see what you have going on. In a drought, or old hay can have more undigested fibre which amounts to lump mounded dry poop. This is not good. Effectively you would be feeding hay which is like straw.

Picks of your cows and calves would be great
Lastly...get med and vaccine advice from yor vet...not an untrained person who just picks up tidbits from the sales me and farmers...if you are going to do it, do it right

 

[rockridgecattle]

Sorry not proofed, call just came in, cow in distress calving



Edit, cow and calf alive...huge calf backwards. Words only a livestock producer love to hear...

"Tail between the legs"