I got questions

[Caustic Burno]

If he was brangus CB, I wouldn't have minded so long as he left my young heifers alone.

He was a 2100 pound Hereford (way to big for my taste)and he would fight a circle saw. He whipped the neighbors Brangus and he got several super baldies. He went to Crockett just as soon as I penned him.

 

[SRBeef]

I put the bull in around the end of May or the 1st of June. I leave him in until a couple of weeks before calving starts. I pull him out and put him on a 10 acre pasture with a steer for company. Most of my cows are bred in the first month of the bull being put in. As calving season starts the 1 or 2 cows that bred back late are culled when they have their calves weaned. By this time they are bred back again but out of sequence with the rest so they are sold as bred cows bringing a little higher $ at the sale.

I worm with pour on wormer twice per year. They get vaccinated once per year. I work them off and on through-out the year to do minor things like ear tag replacement, fly control, check injuries etc. I found it's easier to get them all up and run them through the chute than it is to select out the ones that need attention. This keeps them trained for the regular sessions when I work them all...

This is pretty much what I have gravitated towards also. Except in WI the bull goes in the last week of June, not May, or you will have calves in the snow.

I think the number one goal for most of us should be a very defined and compressed target calving time. NOT strung out. Leaving the bull in, as HOSS does above, does NOT necessarily mean a drawn out calving period.

With up to 20-25 good cows and heifers cycling about every 21 days or so, and a good bull on a smaller acreage, the bull should catch most of them on their first cycle after he is put in, a very few may be on the second cycle.

So if you put the bull in with open cows and heifers for the first time on June 20th, calving should start 283 days later on March 29 and your last 2nd heat calf should be born no later than 42 days later on May 8th.

You should preg check in the fall some time before hay feeding time to see if they are all pregnant. If not pregnant sell the open ones before feeding over the winter.

All cows and yearling heifers overwintered will then be confirmed pregnant. Any cows having calves later than May 8th should be allowed to calve and then sold as either pairs or three-fers before the summer grazing lull. This will maintain herd fertility and tighten your calving period rather than having it slide the other direction over time.

You can wean the calves away from the cows and bull at about 210 days/ 7 months after the first calf or about Nov 1. This Nov 1 is a good time to have the vet come by and give them all vaccinations, boosters and pour-on wormer prior to winter and sort them as they come out of the chute. Heifers to probably be retained get their bangs.

After 8 weeks weaning in early January, I sort the steers back over with the bull and the cows over with the heifers. These two groups males in one and females in the other, are kept separate until bull in date of June 20th again.

Most cows will calve in the first 21 days from March 29 to April 19th.

If all goes well, most cows will be cycling again 60 days after calving or by June 19th. Just in time for the bull in date of June 20th and start of the yearly cycle again.

The key to not slipping is culling any cows either not pregnant at preg check time or who do not calve within 42 days of the first calf or by May 8th.

I have my vet come in for the spring run thru of the female/calf group in early June, ahead of bull in date. Here the steers get cut. They get to be whole about 60 days. They all get pour on and booster shots. Calves get first shots and eartags, bull gets his BSE.

This way also there are open cycling calved cows for only about 30 days or so ahead of bull-in date. This is the key time (May 20th-June 20th) to watch out for neighborhood bulls messing up the system and genetics.

Heifers and steers can be sold out of the two groups at any time after January weaning.

This is what I have found to be sort of a natural northern calving schedule with the peak grass grazing starting about 30 days after calving. Calves born on drier, warmer ground (usually) won't need as much fussing.

I feel that leaving the bull in with the cows is actually a positive thing in that it will identify any slower cycling, late calvers which can then be culled and sold if you religiously stick with the 42 day limit on calving period after the first one hits the ground. Every cow or heifer must have a calf, on time, every year or they get culled. NO exceptions.

Just a suggestion from what I have learned so far, much with help from others here, a couple years experience and reading, for S WI climate. I hope this helps give you some ideas. I had the same newcomer questions. The above system seems to work nicely for me so far with a smaller, one-bull herd. Good luck, parttimer. Jim

 

[msscamp]

agree with this post. We pull our bulls after a certain time. We like uniform calves, and like that the calving is our main focus and then over and done with.

So what do you do about neighbor's bulls? I've got angus bulls to the west. Beefmaster to the south. Herf to the east. There is also one that has crossed the brazos from the north that I am not sure what he is. All have bred my cattle at one point or another. The north bull will cross their fence, go south down the road, and cirle through 3 pastures, jump a cattle guard, and then jump a 54 inch gate to get in to my pastures. The only way he can get around the hot wires is to jump the gate. He has bred heifers of mine that were too young.

I can only figure you folks have no other ranches around you. I have had bulls from two miles up river come onto the flood plain.

I'm not rockridge, but about the only person I can remember having trouble with in regard to their bulls getting into our heifers was Dad's father. Most of the other neighbors only ran steers or heifers in the pastures bordering us. Of course, Dad was a bit less reserved and not nearly so laid back and calm back in those days - perhaps that made a difference? :lol:

 

[AudieWyoming]

SRBEEF; As usual a very well thought out and insightful piece.

Unless you are milking the cows or calving at least a couple of potloads of calves a month. I see no reason for year round calving other than lack of management. I do however see advantages to calving 2 distinct seasons if your weather allows it. With the gestation lenth, you are really only looking at a 30 day window to keep cycling cows away from any bulls.

You need to have some type of plan to keep the young stock from getting exposed any way. Bulls are going to be a large pain in the A$$ the 9 or 10 months you are not using them no matter what. If you are not set up for secure bull pastures, it's reasonable to leave the bulls with the cows most of the year as long as you "lute & dex" the heifer calves after you wean and seperate them from any exposure. @

EDIT: I forgot too add to preg check and you must have the discipline to cull the very late calvers. You can pull a later cow back 30 to 45 days but again that usually takes a little extra management.@

I put the bull in around the end of May or the 1st of June. I leave him in until a couple of weeks before calving starts. I pull him out and put him on a 10 acre pasture with a steer for company. Most of my cows are bred in the first month of the bull being put in. As calving season starts the 1 or 2 cows that bred back late are culled when they have their calves weaned. By this time they are bred back again but out of sequence with the rest so they are sold as bred cows bringing a little higher $ at the sale.

I worm with pour on wormer twice per year. They get vaccinated once per year. I work them off and on through-out the year to do minor things like ear tag replacement, fly control, check injuries etc. I found it's easier to get them all up and run them through the chute than it is to select out the ones that need attention. This keeps them trained for the regular sessions when I work them all...

This is pretty much what I have gravitated towards also. Except in WI the bull goes in the last week of June, not May, or you will have calves in the snow.

I think the number one goal for most of us should be a very defined and compressed target calving time. NOT strung out. Leaving the bull in, as HOSS does above, does NOT necessarily mean a drawn out calving period.

With up to 20-25 good cows and heifers cycling about every 21 days or so, and a good bull on a smaller acreage, the bull should catch most of them on their first cycle after he is put in, a very few may be on the second cycle.

So if you put the bull in with open cows and heifers for the first time on June 20th, calving should start 283 days later on March 29 and your last 2nd heat calf should be born no later than 42 days later on May 8th.

You should preg check in the fall some time before hay feeding time to see if they are all pregnant. If not pregnant sell the open ones before feeding over the winter.

All cows and yearling heifers overwintered will then be confirmed pregnant. Any cows having calves later than May 8th should be allowed to calve and then sold as either pairs or three-fers before the summer grazing lull. This will maintain herd fertility and tighten your calving period rather than having it slide the other direction over time.

You can wean the calves away from the cows and bull at about 210 days/ 7 months after the first calf or about Nov 1. This Nov 1 is a good time to have the vet come by and give them all vaccinations, boosters and pour-on wormer prior to winter and sort them as they come out of the chute. Heifers to probably be retained get their bangs.

After 8 weeks weaning in early January, I sort the steers back over with the bull and the cows over with the heifers. These two groups males in one and females in the other, are kept separate until bull in date of June 20th again.

Most cows will calve in the first 21 days from March 29 to April 19th.

If all goes well, most cows will be cycling again 60 days after calving or by June 19th. Just in time for the bull in date of June 20th and start of the yearly cycle again.

The key to not slipping is culling any cows either not pregnant at preg check time or who do not calve within 42 days of the first calf or by May 8th.

I have my vet come in for the spring run thru of the female/calf group in early June, ahead of bull in date. Here the steers get cut. They get to be whole about 60 days. They all get pour on and booster shots. Calves get first shots and eartags, bull gets his BSE.

This way also there are open cycling calved cows for only about 30 days or so ahead of bull-in date. This is the key time (May 20th-June 20th) to watch out for neighborhood bulls messing up the system and genetics.

Heifers and steers can be sold out of the two groups at any time after January weaning.

This is what I have found to be sort of a natural northern calving schedule with the peak grass grazing starting about 30 days after calving. Calves born on drier, warmer ground (usually) won't need as much fussing.

I feel that leaving the bull in with the cows is actually a positive thing in that it will identify any slower cycling, late calvers which can then be culled and sold if you religiously stick with the 42 day limit on calving period after the first one hits the ground. Every cow or heifer must have a calf, on time, every year or they get culled. NO exceptions.

Just a suggestion from what I have learned so far, much with help from others here, a couple years experience and reading, for S WI climate. I hope this helps give you some ideas. I had the same newcomer questions. The above system seems to work nicely for me so far with a smaller, one-bull herd. Good luck, parttimer. Jim

 

[rockridgecattle]

agree with this post. We pull our bulls after a certain time. We like uniform calves, and like that the calving is our main focus and then over and done with.

So what do you do about neighbor's bulls? I've got angus bulls to the west. Beefmaster to the south. Herf to the east. There is also one that has crossed the brazos from the north that I am not sure what he is. All have bred my cattle at one point or another. The north bull will cross their fence, go south down the road, and cirle through 3 pastures, jump a cattle guard, and then jump a 54 inch gate to get in to my pastures. The only way he can get around the hot wires is to jump the gate. He has bred heifers of mine that were too young.

I can only figure you folks have no other ranches around you. I have had bulls from two miles up river come onto the flood plain.

Sorry Backhoe that it took me so long to get back to you!

The neighbors have bulls that run along side our fences. However, the fences are hot. As well, with the tight breeding season,i would say we get about 97-99% catch rate in that breeding time. Out of 70 cows, 10 of which were hiefers, only 1 open. I know this cause we preg check at two months +1 day from pulling the bull. Any cow that is open or 2 mo or less bred gets her walking papers. In these tough times we keep no free loaders EXCEPT for one reason. A second time calver gets a free pass, if and only if her first calf was a reall good one, and thus she did not breed back. The following fall, she will be the first one preg checked. This is my hubby's idea. Mine would be NO free loaders...however compromise.

We like a tight season. We like uniform calves. We like that out of 50 calves sold, half hiefers, half steers, we can get a lot of 13 steers and a lot of 14 hiefers , as well as two lots of 9 and the rest singles or two or three. We like that this certain block of time in a year is dedicated to calving. We like it gets over and done with so we can get on with the rest of the farm work. We like that everyone gets vaccinated at the same time. Once calving is done, we can turn our attention to fencing, vaccinating, land work, bees, machinery repairs, haying, fall work. If we were still calving during haying, we would have to shut down and tend to the cow and calf, even if it meant, just watching and making sure no problems.
Lastly since we devote 4-6 weeks to just calving our death rates, sickness rates, have dropped significantly. 2008 calf crop out of 105 cows we lot 2. 2009 calf crop, out of 60 we lost 1. Some years our death rate is 0. When our calving season was all year, out of 50 we would loose 5 calves, and most of our calve sold we not be in any lots over 3 in a sale.

Don't know if this was the answer you were looking for.

Oh yeah, when we pull our bulls, they go in a small pasture and stay there the other 9 months of the year...leaving the cows on the other fence line alone. In our area, it is generally practiced to leave bulls in for a period of time and then pull them. 90% of us farmers in the area calve all about the same time give or take a week or two.

Finally, and as an after thought, even though we only use the bulls three months out of a year, we would never think of renting or leasing for fall calving. To much in the risk of disease, on farm biosecurity, and the knowledge that most don't think of treating your equipment with respect, returning in the same if not better condition that when the renters first got it...in laymans terms, the bulls come back run too hard, costing us more money to get them back into shape for summer breeding on our farm.

 

[alftn]

I hardly ever get a bull fom a breeder, usually get one from the friends/people i know around me (20 mile radius) , I mean if 2 people are raising cattle and they each have 25 head, one can use him in Jan , feb. march and the other may ,june ,and july.. It is easy to share if you have like minded people...Cuts your cost down, reguardless if rent, lease , or buy..

 

[TexasBred]

I hardly ever get a bull fom a breeder, usually get one from the friends/people i know around me (20 mile radius) , I mean if 2 people are raising cattle and they each have 25 head, one can use him in Jan , feb. march and the other may ,june ,and july.. It is easy to share if you have like minded people...Cuts your cost down, reguardless if rent, lease , or buy..

alftn...that use to be a very common practice....even for much smaller operators...I can remember my dad leading his cows individually as they cam in heat up the hill to the "only" bull in town. The whole community used that old bull. He lived a long happy life. ;-)