Hype about Anti Biotic Free Beef

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sim.-ang.king":5dvmn76k said:
Did not take any offense, and it was a very well thought out response you had.
Still lots of answers needed on the subject, and like most things people want one quick answer, or one thing to point the blame. But of course there isn't, yet.

The concerns with antibiotics in meat/milk etc. is not about bacteria building up resistance to it but more about eople having allergic reactions to it.
 
OC,
Provided that the animal - regardless of species - has been treated with an antimicrobial agent (or any other drug) approved for use in that species, administered at the proper dosage, by the proper route, and established meat/milk withdrawal times have been adhered to... there should be no problems with regard to folks who are allergic to any specific antibiotic, or to the presence of residual antibiotics which might contribute to selection for resistant bacteria.

The myths and misinformation that are constantly repeated - in the media and in casual conversation - about steroids/hormones/antibiotics in our meat are sometimes pretty disheartening to those of us who know that they are not true.
Sadly, some of those folks in the organic/natural camp needlessly and disingenuously damage the reputation of a safe, nutritious product when they insinuate that conventionally-raised cattle/pork/poultry, etc. are laden with dangerous hormones and antibiotics.
It's just not the case.
 
So exactly why does it matter to you or me if someone is interested in eating/buying beef that hasn't been fed hormones or antibiotics? I mean, why in the world would anyone want to buy skim milk or 1% or 2%? Whole milk's good enough isn't it? We got Stag beer - don't need Bud, Bud Lite, Amber Bock or anything else. I hope the only vehicle owned by everyone on this forum is an F350. Why would anyone want anything else? And what's with all the people who want to fly fish ... waving their fairy rods back and forth all day ... fishing starts and ends with a bait cast reel, 20# black braid, a treble hook, stink bait and a bullhead on the end.

Oh yeah - real close to home - it's clearly been established that Black Steers sell better in the market and anything red, grey, brown, white whatever shouldn't be tolerated. What's wrong with you people that you want a friggin red cow? We don't need em. It's the friggin media I tell ya!
 
One thing that I didn't see mentioned in here is how often is Bovetec or Rumension used in humans? As previously stated, they "technically" are listed as anti-biodics, but if not used by human doctors as an anti-biodic what difference does it make. The reason humans are getting resistance to anti-biodics is because every time they get a cold they run to the doctor.

I don't have a problem with niche markets. They have their place. I do have a problem when they try to create a market by bashing conventioal producers with well spun half truths. I hear more about talk about steroids/feed additivies than the anti-biodic resistance. Such as Zilmax/Optiflex. Tyson has gone the way of sucking up to HSUS and I think when the rest of the packers didn't follow suit, it kinda shows to me that they maybe made a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't know much about beta oxitants or what ever they are. I know if you feed Optiflex too long I think it hurts your quality grade. You get enough discounts to lose what you would of gained by feeding it. I try to treat my animals to the best of my ability. How bad the Zilmax issues were IDK. Going off the whole gestation crate issues, the Zilmax thing sure smells like HSUS to me.

All of these issues stem back to the consumer being so disconected to agriculture. Their only tie to it is maybe a few memories of what grandpa did when they visited the farm or what they seen on Green Acres and Bonanza. Todays socioty is so health concience its unreal. I really do think say cancer or what ever that people try to blame on our food is something that has been in our enviroment since the begening of time, not man created. Maybe its in our grass/water??? We just live longer and it shows up more often. So then when the niche producers are wanting to gain customers some...not all spin facts to generate a sale. Thus bashing the rest of us. I have no problem if you want to eat something that has only at grass all of its life, but we need to educate the public about what is really what. OK, Ill get off my rant.
 
I found a reference that claims 3% of US beef produced and slaughtered is grass fed. I'm skeptical it's more than a fraction of a percent and most of that would be sold as freezer beef directly off the farm or some larger producer selling to Whole Foods. There are probably quite a few folks who don't use antibiotics in their feeding regimens for locally raised beef. These folks may sell freezer beef or find a market to sell their 'natural' beef. In the larger scheme of things, I think freezer beef sales are again a fractional percentage of all beef sales. I've shopped at Whole Foods St. Louis and they don't always have grass fed beef available. They sell some bison. Cost of both is significantly higher than their regular beef prices and only rarely did I see someone purchase the grass fed or the bison.

So if there's any slamming of us typical producers it's not on a very big scale and above all else it's not very successful. If there's a media campaign I bet they're frustrated. In 1980 we had 48 million cows and in 2009 we had 41 million yet our beef production in pounds grew from 21,500 million pounds to 25,900 million pounds. That growth did not rest on the shoulders of grass fed or natural beef. Could not of happened.

If anything, these niche markets help us all out. Certainly the price paid for regular retail beef looks like a bargain next to grass fed and natural beef prices. Someone who doesn't want beef that was fed hormones and antibiotics might of bought chicken otherwise or gone with fish instead. Choice for the consumer is almost always a good thing.
 
The Zilmax deal had nothing to do with the HSUS. Had it continued unchecked it could have, and been a wreck. Plenty of yards several years ago would tell you that Zilmax was going to be bad news and needed to be eliminated. More yet (some, not all, to be fair) that were using it would off the record say they had to use it for competitive advantage purposes but it would be best for all parties involved if it simply weren't available. There are people with views on both sides of Zilmax, but this pressure was from within the industry.

Most of the cattle I feed are commodity cattle but I do feed a few thousand natural cattle annually. There are some decent premiums but the key is having/buying quality cattle to go into the program that are going to stay healthy and convert. Knockouts and the higher cost of gain makes it really critical to start with a good animal. Not every load of yearlings on the video that are sold certified natural are doing you any favors feeding them as such. Infact, we no longer buy natural cattle unless they can be hedged to break even as commodity cattle.
 
I didn't plow through all of the replies.
It is all in marketing. Many people do not realize that antibiotic residues in the products (beef, pork, chicken, milk) is illegal. Texasbred is correct about people being allergic to antibiotics and and if the product is contaminated, it could mean death for someone.

There are tests and controls to help assure a safe food product. I would worry more about unclean processing facilities than the actual meat.
 
All,

Thanks for all the replies and conversation, great information. I just wanted to get a feel if most thought it was in marketing or see if it was backed up currently with science/testing. I have no issue with people stating and marketing beef a certain way as long as they are truthful in there statements. If people want to pay more because that is what makes them feel comfortable and sleep at night then I say go for it. I agree that the USDA wouldn't let harmful residues reside in the beef we eat, but I do think that tests/people could look over or miss things which could lead to problems.

V/R,
OldCrow
 
I didn't mean to hyjack the thread. No I really don't think that PETA, HSUS, & others are getting a whole lot of headway cattle markets. I know one producer in Nebraska that is producing/pushing grass fed beef and is a very vocal member of HSUS. There is another well known producer in Colorado that is a member who is also a member of HSUS and using the natural feeding and humane handling as a way to promote his conception to carcass production to consumers.

No not much in the cattle industry and Im not educated enough on the hog industry to discuss much. I do feel that if someone gives them enough money to attack the cattle industry it will happen. Its just a matter of time. Yes niche producers get a premium for what they do & they desirve it. If ballot iniatives or programs like Tysons farm fresh or what ever its called force all of us into mountians of red tape our expenses will go up. Plus if everybody is raising a niche type product it will flood the market and we will have more work with no premiums.

If you don't think they are gaining headway, PETA is at our stat fair this week. They couldn't figure out a way to refuse them. HSUS might be as well not sure. The Nebraska segment of National Farmers Union has crawled into bed with HSUS. Im not telling you what side of the issues you should be on, but I think you had better figure it out. Weather they are making headway or not I don't know, but they are talking to the uneducated that will listen to them. I don't believe in giving them any more publicity than we need to. I do think we need to do a better job of educating the uneducated. Its way easier to educate the uneducated than change the minds of the miss informed! Otherwise this will bite us in the butt bigger than ever. Way more than worring about lossing the ability to use anti-biodics/ioniofers, steroids, etc. Just something to think about.
 
I'm sure this will generate some blow back but what the heck ....
Some of this is directed to points from Amo's previous post and some just generally toward some things about this board that peeve me.

Niche markets are by definition not mainstream and therefore relatively small. Niche by definition can not flood the market. Niche isn't scary and can hardly produce the pounds of beef, hogs, chicken, clothes, cars, guns or whatever to supply an entire market. Not only is there nothing about niche markets to fear, they may actually play a role in growth and health of the larger market.

I think PETA is generally funny. I'm pretty sure the general public is amused by PETA's antics and considers the group a farce not to be taken seriously. On the other hand, I think the Humane Society is viewed positively for their work with abandoned and abused pets, which is the mission the public expects for HSUS, not cow/calf producers or feeders.

What percentage of the folks you (or anyone else) know are vegetarians? Or won't eat beef because of the 'abusive treatment' animals receive on the farm? Of the hundreds of people I know, I know one (that's 1!!!) person who is a vegetarian. The rest eat beef, maybe not as rare as I but they eat beef. In fact, I don't know of a restaurant within 80 miles of my home that caters to vegetarians.

As God fearing producers we should treat our animals humanely regardless of PETA. The buying public judges how well we do that (as well as other things) and issues their judgement in the marketplace. PETA would like to impact that judgement but they do a really lousy job. There is nothing to fear there at all and getting worked up about it, fighting it simply brings more attention to it.

I bet that PETA display was a huge draw! The reason they do things like paint a butter cow red at the state fair is so they can get some attention. They can't get it otherwise.

I think we sometimes define ourselves by our fears. We get upset and bark at every little annoyance or at anything we don't truly like or understand or is different than ourselves. We are fearful of all these little shadows, back ourselves into a corner, offend an awful lot of people and miss out on a lot of opportunities just because someone or something is different and that scares us.

I won't be that way, and if that makes me different from you, well you know the saying : "Must be a troll!"
 
I want my meat to be natural, period. When I feed out my last calf I had to drive almost 50 miles to get feeds that werent medicated in some form. I drove past countless feed stores, but all their feeds were medicated in some form. Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but anyone that thinks that we dont have a problem with too many antibiotics in our food supply has just stuck their head in the sand. Otherwise why would we have so many different types compare with just 30 years ago when we only had a couple and they took care of just about everything?
 
houstoncutter":2lery7n8 said:
I want my meat to be natural, period. When I feed out my last calf I had to drive almost 50 miles to get feeds that werent medicated in some form. I drove past countless feed stores, but all their feeds were medicated in some form. Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but anyone that thinks that we dont have a problem with too many antibiotics in our food supply has just stuck their head in the sand. Otherwise why would we have so many different types compare with just 30 years ago when we only had a couple and they took care of just about everything?

We knew less about the infections and the antibiotics back then. Most were broad spectrum and we thought they treated anything and everything. We have developed more specific antibiotics now to treat more specific infections via the most efficient route.

Hard to find "medicated" feed up here unless you buy a little cheap receiving ration with a bit of CTC in it otherwise seems most everything is non medicated. If you don't mind paying a little more feed them out on a good high quality textured horse feed. No medications and no travel expense.
 
TexasBred":qc7unt89 said:
houstoncutter":qc7unt89 said:
I want my meat to be natural, period. When I feed out my last calf I had to drive almost 50 miles to get feeds that werent medicated in some form. I drove past countless feed stores, but all their feeds were medicated in some form. Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but anyone that thinks that we dont have a problem with too many antibiotics in our food supply has just stuck their head in the sand. Otherwise why would we have so many different types compare with just 30 years ago when we only had a couple and they took care of just about everything?

We knew less about the infections and the antibiotics back then. Most were broad spectrum and we thought they treated anything and everything. We have developed more specific antibiotics now to treat more specific infections via the most efficient route.

Hard to find "medicated" feed up here unless you buy a little cheap receiving ration with a bit of CTC in it otherwise seems most everything is non medicated. If you don't mind paying a little more feed them out on a good high quality textured horse feed. No medications and no travel expense.



Or you could say targeted antibiotics were developed because of the rise in infections that were no longer being served by a broad spectrum antibiotics because of overuse.
 
houstoncutter":1d4a1ht5 said:
Or you could say targeted antibiotics were developed because of the rise in infections that were no longer being served by a broad spectrum antibiotics because of overuse.

Or were NEVER effective against certain infections. They have never been 100% effective against anything.
 
I work in a medical lab so I understand very well about antibiotic resistant bacteria, but to me if you have a sick animal, and you don't give it antibiotics because you want "antibiotic free meat", well that is just inhumane to let them suffer.

The key is to use it only when the animal needs it, and in the right dosage for the correct amount of time.

Use of antibiotics doesn't lead to resistance, misuse does.

Sorry if this is an old post, but I have been thinking about it myself lately.
 

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