Thanks, Stickney94. So, no value nutrition wise in shelled corn, it is just a matter of no feed mill or not wanting tp pay the extra cost for cracked corn?
How will this beef finish compared to a more traditional finishing method
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I used to insist on using cracked corn until @Jeanne - Simme Valley changed my mind. Now I use a mix until the last 120 days or so and then I feed whole shelled corn. I don't think the grinding has any effect on nutritional value.
Stickney94
Well-known member
Well, there have been a lot of studies on this topic. For a small producer the gains aren't likely to offset the costs. For a large feedlot those % or fractional differences would add up to real value.
This is an article on one of many studies on the topic: https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef-c...particle-size-improve-beef-feeding-efficiency
I know just enough to make me dangerous, haha.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
LOL --- That is a "new" research on an old researched subject. It has been proven for YEARS that the smaller the particle side, the more it is digested - but - the increase is generally about 8% maximum. Generally, you can buy WSC cheaper than the 8% advantage. And, WSC is safer to feed and baby calves eat it better than powdery feed.
Gluten has too much protein for finishing IMO. I have been following Jeanne's finishing recipe for 2 years now. Its been working great. Even our butcher wants it. Says he'll take it if the buyer backs out, ever.
That said...Thanks a lot for sharing your info Jeanne!
That said...Thanks a lot for sharing your info Jeanne!
whole corn only. I give a little cracked to weaned calves because the eat it better. But if they are given more than a lb or two, I give em WSC.
quartermeter
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I've got access to barley. Will cracked barley fatten cows just as good as corn? and with the flavor be good also? Thanks
Silver
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There are a lot of cattle fattened on barley. Flavour is only opinion and two people wont agree on it but I would far rather eat barley fed. Barley makes for nice snow white fat, unlike corn.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
"cooked" barley used to be used all the time for show cattle. They said it made a different fat & the fat deposited different. I never fed it, so have no opinion on it.
@ClinchValley86 thanks for compliment - but, it's the old KISS.
Others may not know what he is referring to - but, I wean, precondition & get them on WSC + protein pellets immediately. Up them weekly until I get them to full feed - feeding 2x day, free choice grass hay. When they are around 8-900# I start lowering the protein. I finish my steers at 12-13 months old and they average about 750# hanging, at Choice or High Choice. My butcher tells all his customers they should talk to me. Not rocket science. My husband was a nutritionist for a while. I just do what he taught me.
@ClinchValley86 thanks for compliment - but, it's the old KISS.
Others may not know what he is referring to - but, I wean, precondition & get them on WSC + protein pellets immediately. Up them weekly until I get them to full feed - feeding 2x day, free choice grass hay. When they are around 8-900# I start lowering the protein. I finish my steers at 12-13 months old and they average about 750# hanging, at Choice or High Choice. My butcher tells all his customers they should talk to me. Not rocket science. My husband was a nutritionist for a while. I just do what he taught me.
I'd like to try a barley fattened ribeye.
Jeanne, thanks again for the refresher.
By protein pellets, are you referring to corn gluten pellets?
Ive been thinking I should get 500 lbs of gluten pellets to the ton of corn. I'm guessing thatd be around a 12 percent protein. Does this sound right to you?
I'm buying from a place that has bulk corn and gluten pellets. They mix how you request. Ive been getting straight corn. But wanting to grow calves faster. Thats what the higher protein level does am I right?
By protein pellets, are you referring to corn gluten pellets?
Ive been thinking I should get 500 lbs of gluten pellets to the ton of corn. I'm guessing thatd be around a 12 percent protein. Does this sound right to you?
I'm buying from a place that has bulk corn and gluten pellets. They mix how you request. Ive been getting straight corn. But wanting to grow calves faster. Thats what the higher protein level does am I right?
Up til now, the fact that we haven't been feeding gluten is something I've attached to my sales pitch. If I were to use it in a manner I just described, would there be any downside on the beef. Discontinue the gluten as I transition into 120 to 150 days full feed.
I'd obviously stop saying the meat was not fed gluten. Lol. Some people it seems to mean something to them.
My family used to buy a beef from a family friend every year. I found that it had gristles (thats what I call them) in the meat. Was common to see them. This family friend fed a corn/gluten mix all the way to finish.
Since feeding our own, and only corn, we've not ran into the gristle. In my head I have attributed that to we weren't feeding the gluten. But that's in my head. Have nothing to back that up. Maybe it was a butcher thing.
Corn gluten is a big question mark to me. Aside from reading it gives meat a flavor.
I'd obviously stop saying the meat was not fed gluten. Lol. Some people it seems to mean something to them.
My family used to buy a beef from a family friend every year. I found that it had gristles (thats what I call them) in the meat. Was common to see them. This family friend fed a corn/gluten mix all the way to finish.
Since feeding our own, and only corn, we've not ran into the gristle. In my head I have attributed that to we weren't feeding the gluten. But that's in my head. Have nothing to back that up. Maybe it was a butcher thing.
Corn gluten is a big question mark to me. Aside from reading it gives meat a flavor.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
@ClinchValley86 I had to look up gluten pellets, LOL - I never heard of it. It is 23% protein and you're recommended not to feed over 20% of ration.
Here's the description:
"Corn Gluten Feed is produced as a by-product of the wet milling process of maize grain. It offers medium protein and high energy for ruminants.
This palatable, low-starch product is high in rumen degradable protein, B vitamins, phosphorus and highly digestible fibre."
I guess I was referring to a soybean pellet. I don't know if your product is the same "gluten" as what people get sick from (gluten free food) - people wouldn't know either, so I would guess they think it's better not to have "gluten".
I don't know if this is a better buy than a regular soy protein pellet??
I was feeding Blue Seal Sunshine - now my nephew is a BioZyme dealer, so I have switched to Sure Champ Ration Builder 32% protein.
The gristle in meat varies - I think more by breed than feed - but I'm not sure on that.
Here's the description:
"Corn Gluten Feed is produced as a by-product of the wet milling process of maize grain. It offers medium protein and high energy for ruminants.
This palatable, low-starch product is high in rumen degradable protein, B vitamins, phosphorus and highly digestible fibre."
I guess I was referring to a soybean pellet. I don't know if your product is the same "gluten" as what people get sick from (gluten free food) - people wouldn't know either, so I would guess they think it's better not to have "gluten".
I don't know if this is a better buy than a regular soy protein pellet??
I was feeding Blue Seal Sunshine - now my nephew is a BioZyme dealer, so I have switched to Sure Champ Ration Builder 32% protein.
The gristle in meat varies - I think more by breed than feed - but I'm not sure on that.
Thanks for the insight. I will ask around on some pellets.. That makes sense on the gristle thing.
My feed guy mixes cracked corn and corn gluten pellets and his commodity mix is 16% protein. As I said, I finish my personal beef on straight WSC. But I feed my weaning calves the mix. The mix is a bit cheaper than the straight corn.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Corn gluten feed is produced in a somewhat chemical intensive process. Corn is treated to remove/extract the starch and oil for ethanol and corn syrup production. The leftovers are turned into corn gluten feed pellets as a byproduct. It is a very unbalanced feed in that it is higher in sulfur than a cow needs, high in phosphorus, low in calcium with a lot of variation in minerals and vitamins. It is high in protein since the corn protein is still there, but the starch has been removed. So, protein is high as a per cent of the total in the leftovers. Calcium to phosphorus ratio is important in a mineral/nutrition program. CGF has too little calcium for the amount of phosphorus present. This imbalanced nutrition is why you should limit the amount of CGF as a per cent of the total diet unless you mix other things with it (like calcium) and pay attention to the percentages in the final mix. Something to watch if you purchase bulk CGF and mix it yourself. The plants that make the CGF probably put most of their effort on the oil and starch side (ethanol and corn syrup) instead of quality of the byproduct. Dark color CGF is an indication that it was overcooked in the process.
Here is some information on feeding CGF.
edis.ifas.ufl.edu
Here is some information on feeding CGF.
AN201/AN201: Corn Gluten Feed for Beef Cattle
University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...
Thank you very much for that information.Corn gluten feed is produced in a somewhat chemical intensive process. Corn is treated to remove/extract the starch and oil for ethanol and corn syrup production. The leftovers are turned into corn gluten feed pellets as a byproduct. It is a very unbalanced feed in that it is higher in sulfur than a cow needs, high in phosphorus, low in calcium with a lot of variation in minerals and vitamins. It is high in protein since the corn protein is still there, but the starch has been removed. So, protein is high as a per cent of the total in the leftovers. Calcium to phosphorus ratio is important in a mineral/nutrition program. CGF has too little calcium for the amount of phosphorus present. This imbalanced nutrition is why you should limit the amount of CGF as a per cent of the total diet unless you mix other things with it (like calcium) and pay attention to the percentages in the final mix. Something to watch if you purchase bulk CGF and mix it yourself. The plants that make the CGF probably put most of their effort on the oil and starch side (ethanol and corn syrup) instead of quality of the byproduct. Dark color CGF is an indication that it was overcooked in the process.
Here is some information on feeding CGF.
AN201/AN201: Corn Gluten Feed for Beef Cattle
University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...
Ive been giving mine just a pound or 2 of cracked corn since weaning. But they've had 3rd cutting crabgrass/dallisgrass hay until now. Will put the last bale out today. Then I'm going to 1st cut hay.
That has me thinking I need to feed them a mixed feed with some pellets. Where do you get your mix?
I had been getting corn in bulls gap. But they've been unreliable lately and their prices aren't as competitive as they were last year. Found WSC for $195/ton at Morristoen Milling yesterday. Think ill deal with them for a while.
How much are you paying for the 16% mix if you don't mind me asking? I work in Greene/Hamblen/Cocke thru the week and live in Hancock. Will get it wherever its the cheapest. Lol
Lee VanRoss
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Isn't the yield on barley measured in gallons (litres) to the acre? (?!)
I get mine from Shaw Feeds in Mosheim. I am guessing you have been getting yours from Ronald Ray. You probably saw my house if you did.
I get mine in bags and it is $5 per 50 lb bag for the commodity and the whole and cracked corn is is $6 I believe. Shaw is is just about 10 minutes from Ray's on the back roads. But, Shaw does run out of corn in the late summer on occasion. If you go there, let me know.
