How old do you call old?

Help Support CattleToday:

Stocker Steve":2v7ldi1m said:
Aaron":2v7ldi1m said:
This was a topic of conversation on another site I am on about a year ago. I crunched the numbers and the average age of my culls is 7.5 to 9.25 years of ago. But I say anything that makes it past 12-13 is old. A cow can't be claimed as exceptional until she is at least 10 years of age.

A lot of guys brag about the young age of their cowherds (heck I was talking to a guy yesterday that said his cows were TOO OLD), but I also notice a pattern of where their REAL INCOME comes from. The guys that I know that make a living off cows want them to live well into their teens (when they actually are making money for the commercial man) and don't require to keep back such a large amount of replacements.

What percent of your heifers do you retain for your replacements Aaron?

Do you sell bred heifers? (dairy guys with low cull rates used to make good $ selling springers but sexed semen and high feed prices changed that)

It varies a little bit, but it's high.

I won't know for a while how the 2012 crop will go, but right now 74% of the heifers for sure will have some male companionship in the future. It could go as high as 100% - I am watching these fall calves develop and I am on the fence on a few.

2011 was 78%
2010 was 76%
2009 was 43% (very bad year for calves in general - lost 25% of the calves)
2008 was 67%

2007 was 33%---------------
2006 was 64%------------------
2005 was 32%-------------------- BSE Years. Just kept enough to try to maintain the cowherd.
2004 was 23%-----------------
2003 was 54%--------------

2002 was 28% (sold 1/4 of the cow/calf pairs to fellow who only wanted heifer calves)
2001 was 78%

So I guess the answer would be around the 70% mark for retention.

I've only sold a few single heifers to a few people. Each one turned out to be a heck of a foundation cow for them and they are keen for more, but I haven't offered them. I demand a hefty premium for the breds because I guarantee the heifer to wean a 500 lb calf at 205 days or your money back.

A lot of people tell me I should breed the ones I don't want as replacements and sell them. I know people that do that and I find it just disgusting to see people chase a dollar out of others for something that isn't worth it. These same people won't sell their top end (even for top dollar) because they say they "can't replace them". That's when I question as to whether they are breeding for quality or just having dumb luck producing some decent heifers.
 
Aaron":7aky6kt9 said:
It varies a little bit, but it's high.
So I guess the answer would be around the 70% mark for retention.

Good records Aaron. Looks like you have a system going, and must be building numbers since you only sell a few bred heifers.

I have been retaining over 50%, but then selling some of them before calving. I usually sell them if they are too big and/or too hot in the chute so they fit right in with most black herds. :)

I just read the Beef article "Why are Beef Producers So Afraid to Cull Cows?". Another look at how old do you call old.
- I agree 100% with culling problem cows. I like to think I have gotten rid of them, and that having a bottom cow cut that does not make any money is behind me.
- I am not so sure about culling "late" cows. The issue I initially had with this was that I think Burke Teichert overestimated the value of cull cows and uniform calves - - but if you sell all your calves at once (I don't), you have big cows (I don't), you know how to market late bred cows well (I am trying) - - then his proposal for selling late cows makes some sense. I think it really hinges on the quality of the replacement.
- One of Bud Williams sell/buy trading examples was based on selling an old cow and buying back a younger one. He gave credit for more future calves from the younger cow, which is what made it a good trade. So you need really high confidence in the stayability of the younger animal. I have seen where folks use the biggest bull or the highest weaning weight bull, and then have issues with thier retained replacements.
 
I have made a fair amount of money over the years buying other peoples culls and getting another calf out of them. Especially those culled for age. Buy them for one bid over kill price in December when kill price is down. Wean the calf and sell the cow the following September with her in better shape and at a time of year when the kill price is higher. The net is having nothing into the cow and only 9 months of her feed bill into the calf.
How old is too old? When she is open.
 
Dave":ve6dhmkv said:
I have made a fair amount of money over the years buying other peoples culls and getting another calf out of them. Especially those culled for age. Buy them for one bid over kill price in December when kill price is down. Wean the calf and sell the cow the following September with her in better shape and at a time of year when the kill price is higher. The net is having nothing into the cow and only 9 months of her feed bill into the calf.
How old is too old? When she is open.
I have been buying for a guy that is making alot money doing this. It's pretty easy when 1700lb cows are bringing 85 cents and 350lb calves are 2.25. I agree to old is when they are open, or just have a udder so bad they can't raise a calf.
 
Dave":r811yxa2 said:
I have made a fair amount of money over the years buying other peoples culls and getting another calf out of them. Especially those culled for age. Buy them for one bid over kill price in December when kill price is down. Wean the calf and sell the cow the following September with her in better shape and at a time of year when the kill price is higher. The net is having nothing into the cow and only 9 months of her feed bill into the calf.
How old is too old? When she is open.

Do you buy the pretty ones, or buy them thin and put weight on?
 
14-16 is old here. Had a couple make it to 18 and raise calves every year till then. Got an angus cow here now thats 16 and has had 14 calves with a 106 ww ratio with a 351 day calving interval. and every calf has been ai sired. looks like a 5 or 6 yr old. most bulls here around 10 is max. have had them last longer but thats usually it. our main angus, charolais, and polled hereford herdsires are 10 and looks like they have several years left in them.
 
Stocker Steve":1nayjj84 said:
Dave":1nayjj84 said:
I have made a fair amount of money over the years buying other peoples culls and getting another calf out of them. Especially those culled for age. Buy them for one bid over kill price in December when kill price is down. Wean the calf and sell the cow the following September with her in better shape and at a time of year when the kill price is higher. The net is having nothing into the cow and only 9 months of her feed bill into the calf.
How old is too old? When she is open.

Do you buy the pretty ones, or buy them thin and put weight on?

I don't buy many pretty ones. They generally cost too much. Thin works better but only to an extent. A real thin old grandman cow is tough to put weight on. So I would say on the thin side but not too skinny. My all time favorite is a cow with lice. The lice will pull them down and make them look tough. They will sell cheap as a result. But how hard is it to kill lice? People pass on these all the time and I make money on them.
Last winter in December I bought one pen of ten broken mouth bred cows. Paid $810 a head for them. All black and blackwhite face that averaged 1,300 pounds. One lost her calf. I canned her that week for $860 net. I had some feed, etc into her so I broke even. The others weaned 9 calves that I averaged $852.50 on the first week in October. The 9 remaining cows sold for $780 average when I sold them in early Sept (the day I weaned calves). I grossed $1,642 minus the original $810 and 140 days of winter feed at $1.50 a day, and about 5 months of pasture at $20 a month per head. So that is $1,120 plus some misc. cost (vaccine, hauling, etc). $1,642 minus $1,120 is $522. I can cover a lot of misc cost for $522 and still have some to put into my pocket.
 
Dave":3ge1ecyc said:
Stocker Steve":3ge1ecyc said:
Do you buy the pretty ones, or buy them thin and put weight on?

I don't buy many pretty ones. They generally cost too much. Thin works better but only to an extent. A real thin old grandman cow is tough to put weight on. So I would say on the thin side but not too skinny. My all time favorite is a cow with lice. The lice will pull them down and make them look tough. They will sell cheap as a result. But how hard is it to kill lice? People pass on these all the time and I make money on them.
Last winter in December I bought one pen of ten broken mouth bred cows. Paid $810 a head for them. All black and blackwhite face that averaged 1,300 pounds. One lost her calf. I canned her that week for $860 net. I had some feed, etc into her so I broke even. The others weaned 9 calves that I averaged $852.50 on the first week in October. The 9 remaining cows sold for $780 average when I sold them in early Sept (the day I weaned calves). I grossed $1,642 minus the original $810 and 140 days of winter feed at $1.50 a day, and about 5 months of pasture at $20 a month per head. So that is $1,120 plus some misc. cost (vaccine, hauling, etc). $1,642 minus $1,120 is $522. I can cover a lot of misc cost for $522 and still have some to put into my pocket.

It is guys like you that make me feel guilty for buying fancy stock... :(
 
Our girls stay until they end up dry in the fall or until they can't get around as good as they used to. We trail over 15 miles in some cases to summer pasture and she has to be able to keep up. As long as they are healthy, raise a good calf, and don't get onery they can stay.
We ship our bulls around 6 or 7 years old, and are considering doing it sooner. The older they get, the onerier they get. Once they get it figured out that they don't have to do what you want them to do, its all downhill from there. We haul them off pasture in the summer, but have to trail them to the corrals to load them and the old ones are just jerks. The younger ones move along just fine but those older ones will run off, run through fences, charge your horse, fight with the dog, etc.. We don't need that.
I came pretty close to getting hit last summer and I swear if I'da had a gun I would have put a bullet right between his eyes. I was happy to see him go. They don't respect the fences, the horses, nothing... and if they go you can't stop them. I like the younger guys. Much nicer to deal with.
 

Latest posts

Top