How much protein do I need to feed.

[Chapin81]

Hi everyone.

I have a 20 month old brahman bull that is not with cows or heifers he's by himself . He's about 1040lbs

I have another one that is with 101 heifers not all are of breeding age. He is 29 months old and is about 1100lbs or so.

They younger one is grazing on grass only. I would like to start giving him feed today or tomorrow. The 29 month old receives 7-10 lbs of feed daily and as per the nutritional value on the bag of feed it has 12% protein he looks a little thicker now. Should he receive more lbs per day or should i buy a feed that has an 18% value of protein. What is the formula for him to gain weight? How much does he need?

Same goes for the 20 month old brahman. I know once he starts working he's going to loose weight.

Any help would be appreciated it.

This is the 20 month old




This is the one that is with the heifers.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Did I read that right? You have one bull covering 101 hfrs? He will breed himself to death!
That being said 10-12lbs of cracked corn and 1 lb of 34% straight protein would be about right. And should be cheaper than the feed you are using now.

 

[bird dog]

Why not put the other bull to work now to give the other guy some help?

 

[Chapin81]

Did I read that right? You have one bull covering 101 hfrs? He will breed himself to death!
That being said 10-12lbs of cracked corn and 1 lb of 34% straight protein would be about right. And should be cheaper than the feed you are using now.

Not all the heifers are of breeding age and yes it's overload and he did loose a lot of weight. But he's doing his Thing till this day. He gained some of the weight back before he got really thing. Still going strong from what I've been told. Can you specify what do you mean by 34% straight protein?? Thanks

 

[Chapin81]

Why not put the other bull to work now to give the other guy some help?

He's 20 months old just got him 2 days ago. I have two other which are there but I don't like the calves that are being born. I figured I fatten him up a bit before he goes to work. I didn't do that with the other one he easily lost 100 lbs or more due to the lack of grass as well.

 

[bird dog]

None of my business but how do you keep the young heifers from getting bred before they are ready?

 

[SBMF 2015]

Did I read that right? You have one bull covering 101 hfrs? He will breed himself to death!
That being said 10-12lbs of cracked corn and 1 lb of 34% straight protein would be about right. And should be cheaper than the feed you are using now.

Not all the heifers are of breeding age and yes it's overload and he did loose a lot of weight. But he's doing his Thing till this day. He gained some of the weight back before he got really thing. Still going strong from what I've been told. Can you specify what do you mean by 34% straight protein?? Thanks

Sure, we use Purina all natural 34% with bovitec. It is to be fed as part of a ration a a rate of 1lb/Hd/day. Other companies have similar products in that 32-36% range. It's considered a grower not a finisher.

I'm with Bird dog. If the bulls in with the hfrs and they come in heat what's stopping him from breeding them?

 

[Chapin81]

None of my business but how do you keep the young heifers from getting bred before they are ready?

Hi bird dog, not bothered by your question at all :lol: I agree what's keeping them from breeding. I'd say say let's pray and see what happens, probably not the best solution or answer. FYI just a little background on my operation.
Parents started 13 years ago I took over in January. I'm in nyc and unfortunately I have to depend on the workers to do everything.
We always had good bulls up until January of last year when two bulls Commercial IMO were brought in for breeding and the results are not promising. Next month we will start Mob grazing I expect to see good results. I'm just curious as to how much to feed because my grass isn't the greatest. I'm still learning something new everyday. Also thankful for the responses I get from your guys!

 

[wbvs58]

I develop my bulls for sale from about 20 months of age and weight 600-700kg (1320-1540 lbs) at the end of summer on a 16% protein grain mix with free access to dried summer grass and later barley straw. The grain mix will be fed at between 2-3% body wt / day. I taper off the feed as they approach the target of the lighter ones reaching 850kg but the top will be near 1000kg by sale time in mid August when most will be just over 2 yrs of age. These are black Angus bulls and do whack on the weight very easily.

Ken

 

[Chapin81]

I develop my bulls for sale from about 20 months of age and weight 600-700kg (1320-1540 lbs) at the end of summer on a 16% protein grain mix with free access to dried summer grass and later barley straw. The grain mix will be fed at between 2-3% body wt / day. I taper off the feed as they approach the target of the lighter ones reaching 850kg but the top will be near 1000kg by sale time in mid August when most will be just over 2 yrs of age. These are black Angus bulls and do whack on the weight very easily.

Ken

Holy smokes!! That's impressive weight!! In a hypothetical situation what do you think they would weight if you fed only grass? Or how much longer would you have to wait to see this type of weight if you fed only grass. Hope
My question makes sense.

 

[wbvs58]

I develop my bulls for sale from about 20 months of age and weight 600-700kg (1320-1540 lbs) at the end of summer on a 16% protein grain mix with free access to dried summer grass and later barley straw. The grain mix will be fed at between 2-3% body wt / day. I taper off the feed as they approach the target of the lighter ones reaching 850kg but the top will be near 1000kg by sale time in mid August when most will be just over 2 yrs of age. These are black Angus bulls and do whack on the weight very easily.

Ken

Holy smokes!! That's impressive weight!! In a hypothetical situation what do you think they would weight if you fed only grass? Or how much longer would you have to wait to see this type of weight if you fed only grass. Hope
My question makes sense.

It does make sense, but I don't have a situation where they are on grass only for 100% of the year. I will give you a rundown on how I raise them.
Our seasons are opposite to yours obviously. My calves are born mid to late winter. We don't routinely feed hay, cows and 1st calf heifers are just on stockpiled grass and are in a pretty poor scrub block until just before the calf is due they then go onto better stockpiled grass. After calving I will give the 1st calvers a bit of assistance with about 2kg of grain mix until things green up in spring. I do try and grow some forage to help them but have limited country suitable. The calves do well here and are only on grass and mothers milk over summer and cows are not supplemented. Most of the early calves will wean at around 350kg around the end of March with 1 or two over 400kg. Any that I keep and develop as bulls will be on grass that is rapidly deteriorating in quality as the frosts start in late March so I will supplement them with a grain mix at about 1% body wt. daily until the grass greens up in spring and they are on their own again until they are brought in and fed as previously described. By the end of winter most would be around 500kg.
If the calves were not fed over winter I would think their weight in spring would only be around their weaning weight. The older bulls would probably be less than their weight after summer by the time the bull sale came around.
If I had a good forage crop to put them on I think weight gains similar to that on grain would be achieved.

Ken

 

[Chapin81]

I develop my bulls for sale from about 20 months of age and weight 600-700kg (1320-1540 lbs) at the end of summer on a 16% protein grain mix with free access to dried summer grass and later barley straw. The grain mix will be fed at between 2-3% body wt / day. I taper off the feed as they approach the target of the lighter ones reaching 850kg but the top will be near 1000kg by sale time in mid August when most will be just over 2 yrs of age. These are black Angus bulls and do whack on the weight very easily.

Ken

Holy smokes!! That's impressive weight!! In a hypothetical situation what do you think they would weight if you fed only grass? Or how much longer would you have to wait to see this type of weight if you fed only grass. Hope
My question makes sense.

It does make sense, but I don't have a situation where they are on grass only for 100% of the year. I will give you a rundown on how I raise them.
Our seasons are opposite to yours obviously. My calves are born mid to late winter. We don't routinely feed hay, cows and 1st calf heifers are just on stockpiled grass and are in a pretty poor scrub block until just before the calf is due they then go onto better stockpiled grass. After calving I will give the 1st calvers a bit of assistance with about 2kg of grain mix until things green up in spring. I do try and grow some forage to help them but have limited country suitable. The calves do well here and are only on grass and mothers milk over summer and cows are not supplemented. Most of the early calves will wean at around 350kg around the end of March with 1 or two over 400kg. Any that I keep and develop as bulls will be on grass that is rapidly deteriorating in quality as the frosts start in late March so I will supplement them with a grain mix at about 1% body wt. daily until the grass greens up in spring and they are on their own again until they are brought in and fed as previously described. By the end of winter most would be around 500kg.
If the calves were not fed over winter I would think their weight in spring would only be around their weaning weight. The older bulls would probably be less than their weight after summer by the time the bull sale came around.
If I had a good forage crop to put them on I think weight gains similar to that on grain would be achieved.

Ken

Thank you for the informative write up. Our weaning weights are not even close to yours. Congrats! I've got a lot of work ahead of me.

 

[kenny thomas]

I develop my bulls for sale from about 20 months of age and weight 600-700kg (1320-1540 lbs) at the end of summer on a 16% protein grain mix with free access to dried summer grass and later barley straw. The grain mix will be fed at between 2-3% body wt / day. I taper off the feed as they approach the target of the lighter ones reaching 850kg but the top will be near 1000kg by sale time in mid August when most will be just over 2 yrs of age. These are black Angus bulls and do whack on the weight very easily.

Ken

Holy smokes!! That's impressive weight!! In a hypothetical situation what do you think they would weight if you fed only grass? Or how much longer would you have to wait to see this type of weight if you fed only grass. Hope
My question makes sense.

It does make sense, but I don't have a situation where they are on grass only for 100% of the year. I will give you a rundown on how I raise them.
Our seasons are opposite to yours obviously. My calves are born mid to late winter. We don't routinely feed hay, cows and 1st calf heifers are just on stockpiled grass and are in a pretty poor scrub block until just before the calf is due they then go onto better stockpiled grass. After calving I will give the 1st calvers a bit of assistance with about 2kg of grain mix until things green up in spring. I do try and grow some forage to help them but have limited country suitable. The calves do well here and are only on grass and mothers milk over summer and cows are not supplemented. Most of the early calves will wean at around 350kg around the end of March with 1 or two over 400kg. Any that I keep and develop as bulls will be on grass that is rapidly deteriorating in quality as the frosts start in late March so I will supplement them with a grain mix at about 1% body wt. daily until the grass greens up in spring and they are on their own again until they are brought in and fed as previously described. By the end of winter most would be around 500kg.
If the calves were not fed over winter I would think their weight in spring would only be around their weaning weight. The older bulls would probably be less than their weight after summer by the time the bull sale came around.
If I had a good forage crop to put them on I think weight gains similar to that on grain would be achieved.

Ken

Ken, remember those cattle are in Guatemala. No seasons except hot. Maybe wet and dry but no winters.

 

[Chapin81]

Holy smokes!! That's impressive weight!! In a hypothetical situation what do you think they would weight if you fed only grass? Or how much longer would you have to wait to see this type of weight if you fed only grass. Hope
My question makes sense.

It does make sense, but I don't have a situation where they are on grass only for 100% of the year. I will give you a rundown on how I raise them.
Our seasons are opposite to yours obviously. My calves are born mid to late winter. We don't routinely feed hay, cows and 1st calf heifers are just on stockpiled grass and are in a pretty poor scrub block until just before the calf is due they then go onto better stockpiled grass. After calving I will give the 1st calvers a bit of assistance with about 2kg of grain mix until things green up in spring. I do try and grow some forage to help them but have limited country suitable. The calves do well here and are only on grass and mothers milk over summer and cows are not supplemented. Most of the early calves will wean at around 350kg around the end of March with 1 or two over 400kg. Any that I keep and develop as bulls will be on grass that is rapidly deteriorating in quality as the frosts start in late March so I will supplement them with a grain mix at about 1% body wt. daily until the grass greens up in spring and they are on their own again until they are brought in and fed as previously described. By the end of winter most would be around 500kg.
If the calves were not fed over winter I would think their weight in spring would only be around their weaning weight. The older bulls would probably be less than their weight after summer by the time the bull sale came around.
If I had a good forage crop to put them on I think weight gains similar to that on grain would be achieved.

Ken

Ken, remember those cattle are in Guatemala. No seasons except hot. Maybe wet and dry but no winters.

Yes it's truly hot down there at least where I'm located, which is the northwest part of the country.

Our dry season starts in January and does not rain until May. Down there we refer to the winter when it starts to rain which is late May until October November. But since the climate isn't what it used to be the rain of course isn't the same. I think I have to work on our rotational grazing and genetics. I hope to get the results I'd like sooner than later.

 

[TexasBred]

Did I read that right? You have one bull covering 101 hfrs? He will breed himself to death!
That being said 10-12lbs of cracked corn and 1 lb of 34% straight protein would be about right. And should be cheaper than the feed you are using now.

Not all the heifers are of breeding age and yes it's overload and he did loose a lot of weight. But he's doing his Thing till this day. He gained some of the weight back before he got really thing. Still going strong from what I've been told. Can you specify what do you mean by 34% straight protein?? Thanks

Sure, we use Purina all natural 34% with bovitec. It is to be fed as part of a ration a a rate of 1lb/Hd/day. Other companies have similar products in that 32-36% range. It's considered a grower not a finisher.

I'm with Bird dog. If the bulls in with the hfrs and they come in heat what's stopping him from breeding them?

Help me out here. How can you figure a10, 11% crude protein feed that is 90% corn a grower ration?? What else is in the total ration?

 

[SBMF 2015]

Not all the heifers are of breeding age and yes it's overload and he did loose a lot of weight. But he's doing his Thing till this day. He gained some of the weight back before he got really thing. Still going strong from what I've been told. Can you specify what do you mean by 34% straight protein?? Thanks

Sure, we use Purina all natural 34% with bovitec. It is to be fed as part of a ration a a rate of 1lb/Hd/day. Other companies have similar products in that 32-36% range. It's considered a grower not a finisher.

I'm with Bird dog. If the bulls in with the hfrs and they come in heat what's stopping him from breeding them?

Help me out here. How can you figure a10, 11% crude protein feed that is 90% corn a grower ration?? What else is in the total ration?

Depends on what we are feeding the ration to. Our mature bulls winter on free choice high quality alfalfa orchard grass mix hay, 15lbs of cracked corn, and a lb of 34%.
Our weaned calves get 1% of their body weight in cracked corn, 10-15lbs corn silage, 1lb of 34%, and free choice pasture type grass hay.

 

[kilroy60]

Higher protein is not for weight gain. The key to weight gain is carbs and fat. Think about it - if you wanted to go on a diet, you'd cut out the carbs and fat. Protein is critical in diets but it is not the factor in weight gain.

 

[TexasBred]

Higher protein is not for weight gain. The key to weight gain is carbs and fat. Think about it - if you wanted to go on a diet, you'd cut out the carbs and fat. Protein is critical in diets but it is not the factor in weight gain.

But it is critical in growth to a mature size at a normal age. The reason starter feed is usually 18% or more, grower 14-16% and finisher 11-12%. You want them to grow "up" before you grow them "out" or like little boys you just have gobby fat, short legged calves that will get docked when you sell them. Obviously the two bulls pictured have been developed properly and do need to be supplemented with a high energy feed for weight gain and stamina during breeding season.

 

[kilroy60]

Agree with you TB. I was mainly commenting to the issue with the bulls of the original post.