How much Gain?

[BH]

Howdy,
What kind of gain do you think I'll get if I feed a ration that consists of :

1 lb Protein pellet -------(40% protein)
2.5 lbs corn-------------(9% protein) (NEm .98 & NEg .67) (.86 DM)
4.5 lbs Alfalfa-----------(16% protein) (NEm .52 & NEg .18 ) (.85 DM)
6.2 lbs Grass hay--------(8% protein) (NEm .54 & NEg .21) (.89 DM)

Say it's for a 500lb steer implanted with Ralgro. Thats on an as fed basis.
When I figured it I got 13.2% Protein and The (NEm/lb .57) (NEg/lb .26).
What might my gain be?
I'm trying to teach myself how to figure this stuff up and learn as I go. Am I on the right track?

Thanks, Brett

 

[tom4018]

Curious as to how you calculate your percentage as I get 12.7 the way I was taught. I like comparing feed rations to see what others are doing. With our ration on lightweight calves we have gains anywhere from 2.4 to 3. What calves we have implanted we used Synovex. We have only done 15 or so as an experiment in the last year.

Are you grinding this mix?

 

[BH]

Hi Tom,

No, I don't have a grinder, otherwise I would.

I see how you got 12.7% protein. You used the As fed amounts. I believe to get the real protein amounts, you have to use only the actual Dry Matter amount.
I assumed the protein pellet was 100% DM So....
1 x 1.0= 1 lb protein
2.5 x .86 =2.15 lbs of corn on a DM basis
4.5 x .85 =3.83 lbs of alfalfa on a DM basis
6.2 x .89 =5.5 lbs of grass hay on a DM basis

This equals 12.5 lbs of DM
I assumed a steer will eat 2.5% of his body weight (500lbs) so 500 x .025= 12.5lbs of DM

If you use the DM lbs of each ingredient, you should come up with 13.2% protein.

what kind of ration are you feeding? I'm like you, I like to see what everyone else is doing.

Brett

 

[Scotty]

Here is one I used to fatten some steers one time. It wokred well for me.

58.5 lb flaked corn
25 lb sweetbran
5.5 ground sudan hay
1.8 lb cotton burrs
9.2 lb protein supplement.

This was for 100 lb. I have a feed grinder so it was easy. It is 14% protein, 3.43 % fat. It supplies 92.32 N. E.m, Mcal/cwt and 63.59 N.E.g, Mcal/cwt. Best I cold figure it ran me about 155.7/ton.

 

[novaman]

The protein pellets can't be 100% dry matter. There is always some moisture in them so 90% would be a more accurate assumption. I didn't check the calculations for energy but if those are right you might be a bit low on net energy of gain for a decent ADG on the steers.

 

[BH]

The protein pellets can't be 100% dry matter. There is always some moisture in them so 90% would be a more accurate assumption. I didn't check the calculations for energy but if those are right you might be a bit low on net energy of gain for a decent ADG on the steers

I wondered about that...... It didn't say anything on the feed tag, so I was just guessing. Thanks

I re figured with it at 90% moisture and came up with 12.94% protein.

The energy was what I was worried about. This ration would cost me $115 a ton. If I added alot of corn the cost would really add up. Thats why I was wondering what kind of gain I would get with a little lower energy. Maybe I can make more money with a cheaper slow gain, than an expensive faster gain. I know theres a fine line inbetween...

 

[tom4018]

We are feeding some lightweight calves and get this mixed up:

300# soyhulls
300# cracked corn
100# corn gluten
100# distillers grain
40# wet molasses


These are small calves, did use a mix with more distillers but they would leave the fines.

 

[BH]

what gains are you getting?

What is your protein?

Thanks, Brett

 

[hayray]

Howdy,
What kind of gain do you think I'll get if I feed a ration that consists of :

1 lb Protein pellet -------(40% protein)
2.5 lbs corn-------------(9% protein) (NEm .98 & NEg .67) (.86 DM)
4.5 lbs Alfalfa-----------(16% protein) (NEm .52 & NEg .18 ) (.85 DM)
6.2 lbs Grass hay--------(8% protein) (NEm .54 & NEg .21) (.89 DM)

Say it's for a 500lb steer implanted with Ralgro. Thats on an as fed basis.
When I figured it I got 13.2% Protein and The (NEm/lb .57) (NEg/lb .26).
What might my gain be?
I'm trying to teach myself how to figure this stuff up and learn as I go. Am I on the right track?

Thanks, Brett

Your gain will probably be pretty slow because your NEg value is way to low for cattle on feed. You need your NEg up over .60 to start getting the 2.5 - 3 lbs. of ADG. You have to lower your roughphage component down to 10 or 15% of the diet and figure closer to 3% DMI of body weight. You have plenty of protein but not enough energy. There is a chart that DeKalb publishes from their feedlot customers in Illinois and it shows a relationship between NEg and ADG on cattle fed corn and alfalfa based diets. - Michigan State University Extension has a extension bulletin that you can print off online called Fundementals of Beef Cattle Nutrition, Harlan Ritchie, that shows all of these relationships so that the producer can easily balance their own diets, it is a guide that I have used and has really helped me a lot with the same questions you have.

 

[tom4018]

what gains are you getting?

What is your protein?

Thanks, Brett

That mix is about 13% the way our mill figures it. On smaller calves we mix in Purina's 32% cattle grower to get it up to 16%.

Recently changes our mix slightly, took out some DDG and added gluten, but this year with small calves we are averaging about 2.25. We don't push them too much as one of the barns here grades really close and if they are fleshy they won't grade.

Most of these are calves we buy at 150# or so and feed up to 500 or 550.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The energy was what I was worried about. This ration would cost me $115 a ton. If I added alot of corn the cost would really add up. Thats why I was wondering what kind of gain I would get with a little lower energy. Maybe I can make more money with a cheaper slow gain, than an expensive faster gain. I know theres a fine line inbetween...

If you put a value on your time, interest expense, and yardage then the cost of a higher rate of gain can pay off. With out getting into alot of computer work you should be able to compare the profit difference between providing enough energy for 2.0/2.5/3.0 pounds per day of gain.

Most of the feed lots and backgrounders in this area are small seasonal outfits - - they buy in calves in the fall and run one, or maybe two, batches per year. The "free" facility sits idle and they spend more time in the coffee shop after the calves are sold. So they usually go with a lower cost ration containing local by products.

Soyhulls or wheat mids may be good options for you to feed with hay. Your local feed guy should be able to calculate some rations for you.