How many cows to be full-time Rancher?

[aplusmnt]

Since all the Hobby, full-time rancher debate. I am curious how many cows does a person need to have a chance at making a decent living? Say an income above the poverty level.

I know there is lots of variables, but just for the sake of average, lets say they already own all their own land paid for. Not it is just about management and production? Are the full-time guys living on 100, 200 or 1,000 cows?

If you are not full-time, at what size herd would you quit your day job and concentrate on cows only? Assuming all the infrastructure was their for you to do so.

 

[Hasbeen]

For me to come around these guy and pretend I'm a rancher would be like the guy driving his S-10 pickup to the truckstop to talk shop with the 18 wheel drivers. In my opinion, how soon one can go full time and with what size herd would depend on how much money he needs to live on and will be different for everyone depending on age and lifestyle. The local people I know who are full time have over 100 head.
To answer your last question, once I have everything I need to work with, probably 20-30 head would cause me to seriously think about early retirement from my day job.

 

[OklaBrangusBreeder]

I would put it this way....

- Last year, I averaged about $700 (roughly) when I sold my commercial calves.

- I figure it costs me say $150 (roughly) per head to winter the mother cow.

- So, I would say I "made" about $550 per mother cow.

- 100 head would make a guy a decent living. If you factor in other income sources (say rental houses or oil royalties) a guy could get by with fewer cows and still get along pretty well.

At that point, looks to me like it just becomes what a guy wants to make and/or get by on.

 

[Bez!]

I would put it this way....

- Last year, I averaged about $700 (roughly) when I sold my commercial calves.

- I figure it costs me say $150 (roughly) per head to winter the mother cow.

- So, I would say I "made" about $550 per mother cow.

- 100 head would make a guy a decent living. If you factor in other income sources (say rental houses or oil royalties) a guy could get by with fewer cows and still get along pretty well.

At that point, looks to me like it just becomes what a guy wants to make and/or get by on.

So you do not factor in machinery, fuel, meds, fencing, buildings, seed, fertilizers, minerals, additional feeds, taxes, personal living costs, utilities, etc etc etc into your profit?

Bez!

 

[Aero]

many folks have said they end up making $100 per calf sold on average over the long run. $200 per calf if things go well.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

many folks have said they end up making $100 per calf sold on average over the long run. $200 per calf if things go well.

Ack, thats terrible.

My long run average costs up here, including rent on the land, equipment, drugs, entertainment costs, etc etc etc is $250 cow/calf pair for the year. This includes backgrounding the calves. I haven't done this years average yet, but with the high costs of fuel now, I think its safe to say it'll be around $285 per. I'll be buying more land this year, so it'll spike to around $325 per pair per year. If the calf prices hold, I'll be getting $950 per heavy 8 weight. So $600 profit per animal. I think with 150 head, a family can live reasonably well, although that margin is shrinking every year.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

For me to come around these guy and pretend I'm a rancher would be like the guy driving his S-10 pickup to the truckstop to talk shop with the 18 wheel drivers. In my opinion, how soon one can go full time and with what size herd would depend on how much money he needs to live on and will be different for everyone depending on age and lifestyle. The local people I know who are full time have over 100 head.
To answer your last question, once I have everything I need to work with, probably 20-30 head would cause me to seriously think about early retirement from my day job.

The average rancher runs 25 to 30 head it's a land thing. Most of the original family homesteads have been busted up in 50 to 75 acre tracts in my area. Back in the late seventies early eighties you could buy the land sell the timber pay for the land and clearing and fencing not anymore. Herd size depends on how frugal you are and who your trying to keep up with to make a full time living .

 

[OklaBrangusBreeder]

So you do not factor in machinery, fuel, meds, fencing, buildings, seed, fertilizers, minerals, additional feeds, taxes, personal living costs, utilities, etc etc etc into your profit?
Bez!

- I never had a cow ask me to buy new machinery. That's my choice, not theirs. I have MUCH better equipment than is necessary to run the cows. I just like doing it that way, but don't pretend to allocate that choice to the cows.
- Meds/seed/fertilizers I included in my $150.
- When people ask how much I make on my "day" job, I don't reduce what I tell them by the taxes. So, I don't quote what I "make" on cows net of taxes.
- My personal living costs have nothing to do with what the cows made.
- My cows have no "utilities" (or TV/Internet for that matter).

Point is, I think alot of folks overly "burden" the profit of the "cows" with the expenses of "living". I try not to do that.
I really was just throwing around rough numbers for the point of discussion anyway.

 

[cypressfarms]

For me to become a fulltime rancher and quit my day job, I would have to:

Look at cattle prices for the last 20 years, take the worst year's calf prices and use that as my gross profit base. Compute all costs associated with keeping em:
water,feed,hay,medicine,lease amount,fence upkeep, etc.etc.etc.

Subtract all costs from gross profit and go from there. I did it several month's back and I would have to run ~300 head, and I still wouldn't make enough to compare to my current salary, but combined with my wife's salary we would do o.k.

You cannot bank on $700 commercial calves every year. Ask caustic about this one. I think that's what's he's been getting at lately. I would say $400 is much safer.I feel sorry for all the people who are getting into cattle these days with their eyes wide open looking at the profits. Folks, it's not if the prices will come down, it's WHEN. Seems like Beefy is real good at itemizing exactly what everything in his operation costs him. Beefy, where y'at?

I am an optimist, but a realist first.

 

[rkm]

I asked a county ext. agent the same question about 2 years ago. He told me about 100 cows with no debt.

 

[MikeC]

I am curious how many cows does a person need to have a chance at making a decent living?

Only a handfull if they are the right ones.

Then again, you can go broke with a thousand.

 

[rkm]

Sometimes I can go broke just thinking about it.

 

[la4angus]

I am curious how many cows does a person need to have a chance at making a decent living?

Only a handfull if they are the right ones.

Then again, you can go broke with a thousand.

This is the only correct answer.

 

[Beef11]

- I never had a cow ask me to buy new machinery. That's my choice, not theirs. I have MUCH better equipment than is necessary to run the cows. I just like doing it that way, but don't pretend to allocate that choice to the cows.
- Meds/seed/fertilizers I included in my $150.
- When people ask how much I make on my "day" job, I don't reduce what I tell them by the taxes. So, I don't quote what I "make" on cows net of taxes.
- My personal living costs have nothing to do with what the cows made.
- My cows have no "utilities" (or TV/Internet for that matter).

Point is, I think alot of folks overly "burden" the profit of the "cows" with the expenses of "living". I try not to do that.
I really was just throwing around rough numbers for the point of discussion anyway.

I agree with not putting personal living expenses. That should be done afterwards on your own budget. 150 seems real lean national average is way above that. What does hay cost where you are at? and pasture?

 

[Texan]

Herd size depends on how frugal you are and who your trying to keep up with to make a full time living.

You got that right, Caustic. It's not necessarily how much you take in, but how much you don't spend that separates the winners from the losers.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

I asked a county ext. agent the same question about 2 years ago. He told me about 100 cows with no debt.

I got mine figured pretty close to that, assuming commercial cow/calf deal. Keyword no debt. Secondly that'll make for a good life but maybe not a good living.

 

[TheLazyM]

what me and the wife has talked about is me quiting my day job on my 45th birthday. if god willing and i'm in good health. but i dont want to cause working at the grain elavator is goes along with farming. i hear sales news everyday etc,etc. i get good price cuts too.
what i do is, everytime i sell i buy back, i put up what i spent on the last batch plus 10% just to cover any surprises and believe it or not this has worked. whats left over i buy a cd at the bank for 4 years. so every 4 years i cashout then buy another. now everyyear i have a cd maturing and flip it into another cd. so if anything pops up that we cant handle i'll have a cd that i can cash.

 

[Ryder]

what me and the wife has talked about is me quiting my day job on my 45th birthday. if god willing and i'm in good health. but i dont want to cause working at the grain elavator is goes along with farming. i hear sales news everyday etc,etc. i get good price cuts too.

If you don't want to quit, why quit?

 

[Hasbeen]

To answer your last question, once I have everything I need to work with, probably 20-30 head would cause me to seriously think about early retirement from my day job.

I probably should clarify that statement. I couldn't raise a family, pay for a home or any of the other things required of me a few years ago. But at my age and with the other sources of income I've aquired over the years, I think that would be enough supplemental income to get by fairly well. If I were twenty years younger I couldn't even consider it.

 

[OklaBrangusBreeder]

I agree with not putting personal living expenses. That should be done afterwards on your own budget. 150 seems real lean national average is way above that. What does hay cost where you are at? and pasture?

Looks like I was a bit low, maybe more like $180 or so. When I look at my costs for last year:

- $72/head Hay = I raise my own bermuda grass, cost was about $18 per bale including fertilizer and custom baling (I mow and rake, a neighbor charges for the baling). 4 bales per head gets them through the winter fine.
- $45/head = Fertilizer & Winter wheat/pasture mix planting.
- $55/head = Range Cubes
- $8/head = Fuel/equipment maintenance.

* Didn't have any vet/med costs last year on my breeding stock (lucky year). I/family own the land. I didn't include any cost of land in my amount (which perhaps I should have) as I view that asset (land) as an investment of its own which appreciates in value over the years.

So, upon further reflection, probably more like $180 (without land costs) per mother cow for me last year.