How many could you run?

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Lucky

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Wondering how many head of mother cows yall think one person could run? Around here the bigger operators seem to give one man 300-350 cows to run on a cow/calf deal. This includes all upkeep and routine maintenance on the place and looking after the cattle. They all get together to work the cattle twice a year and hire extra help if needed. Some do their own hay but allot just hire it done. Seems like they sub out fencing and other big projects and have the hand over see the work. That # seems easily manageable to me if it was all you had going. Just wondering yalls thoughts.
 
I have a rancher friend who says you need 300 to make a living. But if you have 300 you need a hired man to help so you need another 100 head to pay the hired man.
It will vary greatly depending the area and conditions. I have done 100 and had a full time job. Expand out the pastures to be able to run 300 and eliminate the day job and running 300 pairs would be a piece of cake.
My neighbor B runs 1,000 with 1 or 2 hired men. For a while with only 1 hired man. He doesn't sleep much during calving season. Takes one man pretty much all day to feed. Same man irrigates and does hay all summer. Second man assisted with feeding and calving during this time of year. And builds fence and rides during the summer.
 
It depends. If you will have to feed them, then how often? What are you feeding them with? How long would you have to feed them? And depends on your working pens, head catchers, squeeze chutes, etc. How much trouble do they have calving? With good fences, and enough good pasture that you feed little or not at all, good working facilities , great calvers and the right bulls.... 300 would be easy. The less of this you have, the harder it would be. If none of these exists, then 30 would be a bitch even with good dogs and horses.
 
Any time around here an operation runs 300 head it seems it is always a large family operation with extra hired help. They also are into something besides mama cows. The work load with cows is seasonal and other enterprises even out the work load. What could be done by one man varies with the time of year.
 
I understand that what part of the country you are in makes a big difference as well as how spread out you are. I'm just curious region wise. Around here most people feed hay around 100 days a year and use a tractor or pick up. Almost everyone of any size has a couple overhead feed bins and cake feeders on a truck to supplement with. Allot of guys spend as much time on the road as they do feeding everyday though. I had a lease place 20 miles from my house for a few yrs and it made for some really late nights working 12 hr shifts then feeding at both places. I doubt I'd do that again unless it was a really nice big place.
 
I think how far the operation is spread out makes a big difference. Here you have a hard time leasing a place that will hold more than 20 and darn few will hold 100. Keeping up 3 places is a lot different than keeping up with 15. Also if you are making hay and not hauling it or hauling it less than 5 miles is a lot different than hauling it 20 miles. In the right location I think it could be done with just some help a couple times a year to work them. I also think the locations where it would work are pretty limited.
 
If you live in a place that feeds 200+ days a year and barn calve then there are periods of time where a couple would have a very difficult time keeping up without some outside help at least at calving time.
I would expect that there would be locations where it could be easier, but seems like every climate has its own challenges. I am a little envious of the Parker Ranch though.
 
I think how far the operation is spread out makes a big difference. Here you have a hard time leasing a place that will hold more than 20 and darn few will hold 100. Keeping up 3 places is a lot different than keeping up with 15. Also if you are making hay and not hauling it or hauling it less than 5 miles is a lot different than hauling it 20 miles. In the right location I think it could be done with just some help a couple times a year to work them. I also think the locations where it would work are pretty limited.
Same here. Used to everyone had stock, now it's just a handfull, and ground that should be in grass is planted. 5-20 acre patches are about all that's left and most of the fence is poor. I used to rent a 40 and a 20 that were 10-15 miles from home. That takes a lot of time when you have a job too.
 
It depends. If you will have to feed them, then how often? What are you feeding them with? How long would you have to feed them? And depends on your working pens, head catchers, squeeze chutes, etc. How much trouble do they have calving? With good fences, and enough good pasture that you feed little or not at all, good working facilities , great calvers and the right bulls.... 300 would be easy. The less of this you have, the harder it would be. If none of these exists, then 30 would be a bitch even with good dogs and horses.
Working a full time job and doing pretty much everything here solo, 20-40 is enough for me…of course, I'm not doing for a living…if I wanted to do that, my biggest restraint would be space…110 acres with some set aside for hay doesn't leave much room for grazing
 
There is one full time cattleman in this county. He runs around 300 head of his own scattered over a ten mile square and has a partnership on another 3-400 with a family that owns a large section of rough land they don't want to farm, and it's far enough away/no desire by the next generation they don't want to manage it. The number of head is hearsay but probably pretty accurate. They road a lot of tractor miles, and are lucky that many of those acres aren't planted. It's rough ground, but the grain farmers will pay up way more than what pasture rent will bring.
 
All depends on how one sets it up I suppose. Let's take available land out of the equation for a moment, because that will dictate the size of your operation regardless of how many people work the cows.

Around here we have all kinds of different setups. Most are family run operations.
One is a Cow/Calf + feedlot. Not sure how many they actually run, if it's 300 or 400 cows plus the same amount in feeders. Plus grain operations. 2 guys for feeding, calving. Hired hand or hands during seeding and harvest. Mind you, calving starts in may and is done on pasture. They are hard working people, that's for sure.

Another outfit is about 500 cows, no feedlot, but also grain. They calve earlier, which is a lot more work here due to the long winter season. Same idea as the previous example.

There is poor lil me, we have currently 90 bred cows plus a few calves retained for replacement heifers. My husband works fulltime and is only available on days off. Calve in April/May, to get out of the worst winter weather, and we grow our own hay. That's about it. It's very laid back, except when **** hits the fan. Have started to hire out some fencing, like building new fence over a longer distances as we're not getting younger either.

And yet another outfit, the main Farm/Ranch is a couple hundred miles from here, but they bought a block of grazing land here. Run 250 or 300 cows there all year. The cows calve on their own, whatever happens happens. And feeding in winter is done by hauled in bale grazing, which is set up in fall sometime. Neighbour just keeps an eye on the herd, as in 'are they on the right side of the fence' and the rest is done by dropping by every now and then and hauling out the calves in the fall.
Not sure what you would call that kind of setup.
What I'm trying to get to is, it all depends how YOU want to set it up, how ambitious you are and how much money is involved.
Working yourself to death isn't worth it either.
 
I feed 60 head a day plus a few in the corral by myself. Go out the door at 7:15 and back in the house by 8:15. After today the ones in the corral will be gone. That will save 10 minutes or so. In a month or so there will be 100-120 head to feed. Not much over an hour. Calves February and March. Just check when I feed in the morning and run through with the quad in the afternoon. With these old cows 99.9% of the time calving is just old #xxx had a calf. Write it down in the book.
One day branding and hauling cows to summer pasture. Lots of neighbor help for that. But I probably work 8 brandings for the neighbors.
I think I could fairly easily do 300+ but I am retired and don't need or want a full time job.
 
Wondering how many head of mother cows yall think one person could run? Around here the bigger operators seem to give one man 300-350 cows to run on a cow/calf deal. This includes all upkeep and routine maintenance on the place and looking after the cattle. They all get together to work the cattle twice a year and hire extra help if needed. Some do their own hay but allot just hire it done. Seems like they sub out fencing and other big projects and have the hand over see the work. That # seems easily manageable to me if it was all you had going. Just wondering yalls thoughts.
Ranching For Profit schools claim you should only have one full time employee per 1,000 cows. Pretty easy for one person to run over 3,000 yearlings or move well over 1,000 cows several miles by themselves if they use the right stockmanship.
 
Ranching For Profit schools claim you should only have one full time employee per 1,000 cows. Pretty easy for one person to run over 3,000 yearlings or move well over 1,000 cows several miles by themselves if they use the right stockmanship.
@Bob Kinford , I was reading this thread at 6 AM this morning, sitting at my computer, drinking my pot of coffee, smoking about a half pack, trying to convince myself to ignore the pain and get out and start doing something. My usual morning routine. When I read your reply above, I notice the address to your website, and went to it, I have spent the last 3 hours, mesmerized. I found the videos about getting the cattle back to the herd instinct very informative, and I agree with that 100%. Also found the video about the creosote and moisture and all interesting. I am fortunate that where I live, rainfall etc is not much of a problem. I clicked on your short video about "What cows eat", and I swear, it looked like you had filmed my Corrientes in the Kudzu! IMO, you are backing up to completely clear your pastures of trees, brush, bushes, etc.

Then. I started watching the videos of you moving cattle! I am a horseman first. I always say The only reason I fool with cattle is for training my horses. They are training aids and could be a major expense...I have just found ways to make money on these necessary evils! I am very very impressed with your horses, your horsemanship, and your knowledge of how to handle cattle horseback. It is the exact same way I do it. Watching the 4 part video, I knew exactly what you were doing and why, and knew what the outcome was going to be. People like uyou, me, and the dude in the video moving those 1300 head by himself, are a dying breed. This is how I " break" cattle to being handled on horseback. I have had people ask me to help them get up some "wild" cattle before, and the first thing I tell them is to leave them the heck alone for a week. Do NOT , EVER let anyone in there with a 4 wheeler or some damned dogs. If you do, you gonna end up paying me a LOT more money to catch your cows. They will say." If you get in there chasing these cows with a horse, they will go through every fence they come to, til they get into the next county!" ROFLMFAO. I will do what you do. I ride in either alone or with another person who knows how. I will WALK my horse up to them, angling in toward them a little at a time. If they wanna spook, I just stop and sit my horse. So many times, especially with younger ones, curiosity will get the best of them, and they will approach me. Slow and easy wins the day. If you don't have patience, then you have no business fooling with cows, Or horses. Here, we have 400 acre pastures, not 4000 acres, but the principle is the same. I will run about 120 Corr cows on 230 acres, 100 or more covered in Kudzu. They calve in February, and in March we get them up to cut the bull calves and tag all the calves. Around Labor Day, we round them up again, cut the calves out and take them to the sale. November after the crops are in, we round them up drive them a mile down the road, to 450 acres of harvested row crops. In February, we round them up and drive them back to the Kudzu place. These 4 times a year are the only time they are handled, or we even see them. Now, I have horses that can run down the fastest LH there is. It looks like the cow was standing still. And I have one that I can head a 2k+ bull, and drag him around like he was an empty feed sack. But, if I ever have to do either, it is because of my error handling them. When I taught classes to train lifeguards. I would tell them:" If you ever have to go in the water to do a rescue, it is because you weren't doing your job watching them to start with." It is the same principle if you ever have to "cowboy" cattle.

Now, tell me about your horses. Do you raise them, or buy them and train them, or buy made horses? I myself, for the most part, do the latter two. To be honest, I was focusing more on you and those horses, than the cattle. I knew what you were doing with them, and what the results were going to be. Oh, and how much do you want for that grey?!! :)
 
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1000 cows with 1 employee?

I guess that all depends on what that means.

Grazing and rotating that many thru vast expanses of western range land? Sure I can buy those numbers.

In most of the east where land parcels are smaller and fragmented rotating 1000 head would typically require many herds spread over various properties and around here all of which will require trailering animals between.

Then add in building/repairing fence, making/hauling/stacking/feeding hay, hauling cows, etc and there is no way 1 or 2 guys could run 1000 head.
 
@Bob Kinford , I was reading this thread at 6 AM this morning, sitting at my computer, drinking my pot of coffee, smoking about a half pack, trying to convince myself to ignore the pain and get out and start doing something. My usual morning routine. When I read your reply above, I notice the address to your website, and went to it, I have spent the last 3 hours, mesmerized. I found the videos about getting the cattle back to the herd instinct very informative, and I agree with that 100%. Also found the video about the creosote and moisture and all interesting. I am fortunate that where I live, rainfall etc is not much of a problem. I clicked on your short video about "What cows eat", and I swear, it looked like you had filmed my Corrientes in the Kudzu! IMO, you are backing up to completely clear your pastures of trees, brush, bushes, etc.

Then. I started watching the videos of you moving cattle! I am a horseman first. I always say The only reason I fool with cattle is for training my horses. They are training aids and could be a major expense...I have just found ways to make money on these necessary evils! I am very very impressed with your horses, your horsemanship, and your knowledge of how to handle cattle horseback. It is the exact same way I do it. Watching the 4 part video, I knew exactly what you were doing and why, and knew what the outcome was going to be. People like uyou, me, and the dude in the video moving those 1300 head by himself, are a dying breed. This is how I " break" cattle to being handled on horseback. I have had people ask me to help them get up some "wild" cattle before, and the first thing I tell them is to leave them the heck alone for a week. Do NOT , EVER let anyone in there with a 4 wheeler or some damned dogs. If you do, you gonna end up paying me a LOT more money to catch your cows. They will say." If you get in there chasing these cows with a horse, they will go through every fence they come to, til they get into the next county!" ROFLMFAO. I will do what you do. I ride in either alone or with another person who knows how. I will WALK my horse up to them, angling in toward them a little at a time. If they wanna spook, I just stop and sit my horse. So many times, especially with younger ones, curiosity will get the best of them, and they will approach me. Slow and easy wins the day. If you don't have patience, then you have no business fooling with cows, Or horses. Here, we have 400 acre pastures, not 4000 acres, but the principle is the same. I will run about 120 Corr cows on 230 acres, 100 or more covered in Kudzu. They calve in February, and in March we get them up to cut the bull calves and tag all the calves. Around Labor Day, we round them up again, cut the calves out and take them to the sale. November after the crops are in, we round them up drive them a mile down the road, to 450 acres of harvested row crops. In February, we round them up and drive them back to the Kudzu place. These 4 times a year are the only time they are handled, or we even see them. Now, I have horses that can run down the fastest LH there is. It looks like the cow was standing still. And I have one that I can head a 2k+ bull, and drag him around like he was an empty feed sack. But, if I ever have to do either, it is because of my error handling them. When I taught classes to train lifeguards. I would tell them:" If you ever have to go in the water to do a rescue, it is because you weren't doing your job watching them to start with." It is the same principle if you ever have to "cowboy" cattle.

Now, tell me about your horses. Do you raise them, or buy them and train them, or buy made horses? I myself, for the most part, do the latter two. To be honest, I was focusing more on you and those horses, than the cattle. I knew what you were doing with them, and what the results were going to be. Oh, and how much do you want for that grey?!! :)
I've actually made all of my horses. Finally broke down and had a kid start a five year old for me last spring as my body doesn't swing up as it should. Never spent more than 1k on a horse and most I've owned were deals of getting a horse for starting a horse. Have absolutely no idea of how many I've thrown a leg over. When I was forty, sat down with a guy and we were trying to figure out how many horses we'd been on. I'd been on over two thousand head at that point, the majority of them being either colts or problem horses no one else wanted to ride.
Glad you're enjoying the website. Whatever you do, don't stop learning as theyre always more to learn in this business.
 

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