How do you select a herd bull

[cowboy43]

When selecting a herd bull what are the characteristics you look for and how many are their ?
Would you list them in order and why ?
List # 1 as the most important.
Hope their are several answers and will be interesting to see different opinions and how they differ.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

In a young herd bull, we are looking for the proper phenotype, an early maturing individual, good temperament, masculinity shown at an early age, quality of the sire and dam, tenderness genes, weaning and birth weights, calving ease in the dam, high fertility, and high libido are just a few of the attributes that we look for. It is hard to write down which trait is most important because even without one of the traits above, you will have problems. I put tenderness genes in the list because they really improve the quality of our grass-fed beef.
I have attached a photo of a 6 month old bull from our 2012 calf crop who fit these requirements. He was following the open Guernsey cow that we had.

 

[cowboy43]

The reason I asked this question is because of the number of registered bulls I see for sale on cattle range and other sites, and they are asking top dollar for them and they seem to sell, to me by the pictures they would make good steers. It seems like some people ( buyers and sellers) do not know what to look for, if they are registered they think that makes them good bulls. my :2cents:

 

[Aaron]

The reason I asked this question is because of the number of registered bulls I see for sale on cattle range and other sites, and they are asking top dollar for them and they seem to sell, to me by the pictures they would make good steers. It seems like some people ( buyers and sellers) do not know what to look for, if they are registered they think that makes them good bulls. my :2cents:

Very true. You get a lot of these poorer bulls in the smaller markets, where quality is of less concern than price. I myself am in one of these markets. I could spend mega-bucks on the best genetics possible and raise some fantastic bulls, but I would never get myself out of the hole I would dig for myself.

90% of buyers around here will not spend over 2k for a bull of any kind, and if the one beside him looks like a steer, but priced at $1500, he'll buy him. I don't blame them. Those are the kind of people who have been producing cattle for generations on cattle income alone, and have $30-40,000 to play with each year and pay the bills. Buying $4-5,000.00 bulls doesn't work for them. When bull prices get too high, a lot of commercial guys here trade bulls or buy deals from the kill pens at the markets.

I've got my 2 year old bulls priced at $2500 this year and I hope I can sell even 1/2 of them. If not, I won't be raising bulls anymore. A lot of big-time breeders have brought nice bulls into this area in the spring to sell at breeding sale auctions, only to have them all passed with no bids at $1800 and then have 10 bids behind the barn for $1600 or less. They have all now left, vowing never to return. The thinking with most producers here is buy a bull cheap enough, so that when you eventually sell him, you make money.

 

[3waycross]

The reason I asked this question is because of the number of registered bulls I see for sale on cattle range and other sites, and they are asking top dollar for them and they seem to sell, to me by the pictures they would make good steers. It seems like some people ( buyers and sellers) do not know what to look for, if they are registered they think that makes them good bulls. my :2cents:

Very true. You get a lot of these poorer bulls in the smaller markets, where quality is of less concern than price. I myself am in one of these markets. I could spend mega-bucks on the best genetics possible and raise some fantastic bulls, but I would never get myself out of the hole I would dig for myself.

90% of buyers around here will not spend over 2k for a bull of any kind, and if the one beside him looks like a steer, but priced at $1500, he'll buy him. I don't blame them. Those are the kind of people who have been producing cattle for generations on cattle income alone, and have $30-40,000 to play with each year and pay the bills. Buying $4-5,000.00 bulls doesn't work for them. When bull prices get too high, a lot of commercial guys here trade bulls or buy deals from the kill pens at the markets.

I've got my 2 year old bulls priced at $2500 this year and I hope I can sell even 1/2 of them. If not, I won't be raising bulls anymore. A lot of big-time breeders have brought nice bulls into this area in the spring to sell at breeding sale auctions, only to have them all passed with no bids at $1800 and then have 10 bids behind the barn for $1600 or less. They have all now left, vowing never to return. The thinking with most producers here is buy a bull cheap enough, so that when you eventually sell him, you make money.

Aaron that's a pretty sad story. 600lb calves are bring 1100 all over the place and u are hoping to sell your 2yr olds at $2500. I don't blame those higher end bull breeders for walking away and if I were u I would too.

 

[Aaron]

The reason I asked this question is because of the number of registered bulls I see for sale on cattle range and other sites, and they are asking top dollar for them and they seem to sell, to me by the pictures they would make good steers. It seems like some people ( buyers and sellers) do not know what to look for, if they are registered they think that makes them good bulls. my :2cents:

Very true. You get a lot of these poorer bulls in the smaller markets, where quality is of less concern than price. I myself am in one of these markets. I could spend mega-bucks on the best genetics possible and raise some fantastic bulls, but I would never get myself out of the hole I would dig for myself.

90% of buyers around here will not spend over 2k for a bull of any kind, and if the one beside him looks like a steer, but priced at $1500, he'll buy him. I don't blame them. Those are the kind of people who have been producing cattle for generations on cattle income alone, and have $30-40,000 to play with each year and pay the bills. Buying $4-5,000.00 bulls doesn't work for them. When bull prices get too high, a lot of commercial guys here trade bulls or buy deals from the kill pens at the markets.

I've got my 2 year old bulls priced at $2500 this year and I hope I can sell even 1/2 of them. If not, I won't be raising bulls anymore. A lot of big-time breeders have brought nice bulls into this area in the spring to sell at breeding sale auctions, only to have them all passed with no bids at $1800 and then have 10 bids behind the barn for $1600 or less. They have all now left, vowing never to return. The thinking with most producers here is buy a bull cheap enough, so that when you eventually sell him, you make money.

Aaron that's a pretty sad story. 600lb calves are bring 1100 all over the place and u are hoping to sell your 2yr olds at $2500. I don't blame those higher end bull breeders for walking away and if I were u I would too.

Believe me, I think about it every day I feed those bulls. But I just roll the dice and hope for the best. No reason to go to a casino, raising bulls is by far a bigger gamble around here.

 

[highgrit]

Myself I just go and look at them. Numbers don't mean nothing to me here. I bring a good looking bull home and he just falls apart. It takes a bull 2-3 years to get use to the way he has to live around here. I bought a 15 month old Hereford bull in October, and he still looks good to me. I will not put him on any heifers till next year, I want to see the size and shape of his calves.

 

[plumber_greg]

Highgrit, if your buyin' a bull that " falls apart", research a bull breeder that raises bulls the way you "make live them way he has to around here". If a bull " falls apart" for you, you, not the breeder is, is at fault. You're not doin' your job in selecting bulls. gs

 

[3waycross]

You also cannot buy a bull right off test and cold turkey him to straight grass or hay and nothing else. He is still growing and needs to be let down the right way.

Another thing to consider is that this bull is gonna change his teeth in the fall coming 2yrs old and if he ain't fed right then he is gonna fall apart, and I guarantee his fertility will suffer.

A lot of folks buy a bull and think they bought a buick. They think that when they don't use him he just sits there waiting for them to start his engine and put him to work. Well folks that ain't the way it works. Would ya'll buy a truck and not put gas in it and then call Ford and bytch that it's their fault your new truck doesn't run.

 

[highgrit]

Greg hit it dead on for me. I went to a low input type breeder and am very happy so far. I was a little worried because they ate mostly fiscue grass and we have none of it here. If he breeds as good as he digs holes, I will be happy. 3Way, if you feed a young bull do you feed your heifers also?? I don't feed my heifers till after they have a calf.

 

[3waycross]

Greg hit it dead on for me. I went to a low input type breeder and am very happy so far. I was a little worried because they ate mostly fiscue grass and we have none of it here. If he breeds as good as he digs holes, I will be happy. 3Way, if you feed a young bull do you feed your heifers also?? I don't feed my heifers till after they have a calf.

I feed my heifers grass and hay and minerals. They do get some better hay and a little cake once in a while. They are however fed heavier after they calve to get the breedback percentage up.

Bulls are a different story. In this country yearling bulls are the norm. Very few 2yr olds are sold in the bull sales.

If those youngsters do not get some extra incentive to express their genetic makeup at an early age they just don't make the grade.

In a perfect world I would like to calve in the fall and sell 18 month old bulls but fall calving is just too hard on our cows and especially heifers.