How Do You Select a Bull?

[Ebenezer]

There's a topic for discussion. Does a real big mature bull (2600 to 3000#) sire more growth in his calves? Birth to slaughter growth? Is there more economic value in a huge bull? Is the growth curve steeper or do they just continue to grow longer? How much does a bull need to weigh?

Great question. Some of the curve benders just grow longer even if they are born via short gestational periods to have the low BW. The growth curve gets skewed in that selection somehow. The question is: what weight or age is the targeted slaughter weight and will longer maturing animals finish properly at that cutoff? I think we know that answer. I used an old Angus bull called Pfred years ago. Great cattle except for the mature cow size of 1700 to 1800 on fescue and no supplements. I have always shied away from anything else labeled as a curve bender since that experience.

 

[simme]

My farms are steep and a bull must be able to travel well. I know some can but lots of heavy bulls are just like a 400lb man, they dont perform well.

That made me think of this. The discussion that cattle epd's increase over the years, but actual weights don't. Not the case with people. For sure, actual weights of people have increased a LOT over my lifetime. Weaning weights, yearling weights, but most of all mature weights. But I think it's either genetics, environment or management - same as with cattle.

 

[SBMF 2015]

That was common in show cattle in the late past. One famous Angus bull got some Holstein in his DNA when they mixed up the nurse cow's calf for the Angus calf.

Still to this day every once in a while you can come across a pure bred angus cow with some white on her udder. Typically they milk really well and are calf raising machines.

 

[ClinchValley86]

@kenny thomas

Need to see some pics of ol KT69.

 

[kenny thomas]

@kenny thomas

Need to see some pics of ol KT69.

Not in todays rain but definitely will tomorrow

 

[Nesikep]

My bulls I raised that were shorthorn influenced usually matured out around 24-2500 lbs, the Gelbvieh seem to mature out around 2000-2200. Fat bulls don't appeal to me at all.. Mr Hillsdown sent me a catalog of heifers from various breeders and they were PIG FAT.. They don't look like they'd enjoy hiking up a hill in hot weather much https://www.cattlevidsviewer.ca/events/3844_112224_CV_2024Fall/

I like my cows to gain good weight during the winter on grass/hay alone, then put that fat into milk when they have a calf. If they're fat pigs at weaning they weren't working hard enough... It's definitely a balancing act though, and my cows wouldn't do well on scrub grass.

I'm sure there's more differences within breeds now than between breeds.

Here's Hector, in a hurry to check out a cow, and then ambling back.. He could "hoof it" pretty good when something caught his attention


Lighter/taller bull is Hector's son, darker one is a purebred Gelbvieh I bought.. I liked both of them.. They weren't supposed to be in the same pasture but they had other plans (each had their own group of cows until then)

Hector was good for mature cows, he had higher birthweights, but the calves sure looked good

Zeus at nearly 6 months


And to me, the most important.. being manageable and docile
Yearling Zeus



4 year old Zeus.. nothing has changed

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Zeus and Barry were very careful not to let themselves get pushed over against the electric fence.

 

[CSM]

Kenny mentioned Holstein recips would increase et calf weaning weights and that is true. What many people don't realize is that data bw, ww, etc is submitted as a contemporary group. Those groups can be AI and natural breeding combined but et calves are not included, or at least some breed associations do it this way.
It was also mentioned by someone that a WW epd of 35 is expected to produce 35 extra pounds not correct.
An epd 35 pounds heavier than the breed average would be expected to have that result.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

EPD's are for people to COMPARE 1 bull against another bull. If 1 bull has a WW of 35 and another has a WW of 50 - the one with 50 is EXPECTED to wean calves 15# heavier than the other bull.

 

[Louthelivestockguy]

My bulls I raised that were shorthorn influenced usually matured out around 24-2500 lbs, the Gelbvieh seem to mature out around 2000-2200. Fat bulls don't appeal to me at all.. Mr Hillsdown sent me a catalog of heifers from various breeders and they were PIG FAT.. They don't look like they'd enjoy hiking up a hill in hot weather much https://www.cattlevidsviewer.ca/events/3844_112224_CV_2024Fall/

I like my cows to gain good weight during the winter on grass/hay alone, then put that fat into milk when they have a calf. If they're fat pigs at weaning they weren't working hard enough... It's definitely a balancing act though, and my cows wouldn't do well on scrub grass.

I'm sure there's more differences within breeds now than between breeds.

Here's Hector, in a hurry to check out a cow, and then ambling back.. He could "hoof it" pretty good when something caught his attention


Lighter/taller bull is Hector's son, darker one is a purebred Gelbvieh I bought.. I liked both of them.. They weren't supposed to be in the same pasture but they had other plans (each had their own group of cows until then)

Hector was good for mature cows, he had higher birthweights, but the calves sure looked good

Zeus at nearly 6 months
View attachment 51478

And to me, the most important.. being manageable and docile
Yearling Zeus
View attachment 51479


4 year old Zeus.. nothing has changed
View attachment 51480

Being able to enjoy your cattle and touch them are a huge thing for me. I'm not getting younger and my rodeo days are over with them!

 

[fnfarms1]

I choose bulls to be moderate frames as mature animals. I dont feel that a 2000lb bull has a place in my herd. I sometimes buy or retain heifers, sometimes cows. So my bulls have to do it all. I feel that huge mature bulls cause to many issues in cows as well as structurally on themselves. No butcher steer or cow of mine is going to see 1700lbs. My cows mature 1100-1300, fat steers 1350-1450. I buy bulls from a guy 3hrs away, tell him what i want. Sends pics and buy accordingly. Has worked well for 10yrs. Had issue last year but just how it goes.
Calving ease, maternals in case i want the heifers. I also keep 8-10 fay steers to sell so growth is needed as well.

Curious about Simme since i use simangus bulls. But im NE Ok and dont really travel much. That may change, as the job is about to as well, if I have more time. A local family 15mins from me is known for its commercial bulls, really wanting to try their SimAngus. However im trying to move to reds and they are black

 

[ClinchValley86]

I choose bulls to be moderate frames as mature animals. I dont feel that a 2000lb bull has a place in my herd. I sometimes buy or retain heifers, sometimes cows. So my bulls have to do it all. I feel that huge mature bulls cause to many issues in cows as well as structurally on themselves. No butcher steer or cow of mine is going to see 1700lbs. My cows mature 1100-1300, fat steers 1350-1450. I buy bulls from a guy 3hrs away, tell him what i want. Sends pics and buy accordingly. Has worked well for 10yrs. Had issue last year but just how it goes.
Calving ease, maternals in case i want the heifers. I also keep 8-10 fay steers to sell so growth is needed as well.

Curious about Simme since i use simangus bulls. But im NE Ok and dont really travel much. That may change, as the job is about to as well, if I have more time. A local family 15mins from me is known for its commercial bulls, really wanting to try their SimAngus. However im trying to move to reds and they are black

I'm with you on mature bull weight and red hides. Non-black animals get by much better in our humid summers.

 

[fnfarms1]

I'm with you on mature bull weight and red hides. Non-black animals get by much better in our humid summers.

This has been my thoughts and why im trying to head towards a mostly red angus/simmi herd. Likely use homo black bull to still get top dollar calves.

 

[ClinchValley86]

This has been my thoughts and why im trying to head towards a mostly red angus/simmi herd. Likely use homo black bull to still get top dollar calves.

That's the responsible thing to do .

Yellow and smoke calves... they get docked pretty hard in your area, too?

 

[gcreekrch]

There's a topic for discussion. Does a real big mature bull (2600 to 3000#) sire more growth in his calves? Birth to slaughter growth? Is there more economic value in a huge bull? Is the growth curve steeper or do they just continue to grow longer? How much does a bull need to weigh?

Not about how big they get, the goal is how quick they can get big. Most calves raised end up in feedlots to grow and become beef. Bulls can be raised on a slower growing ration to hopefully make them last longer but their progeny had better have the ability to grow fast and get to desired slaughter weights as quickly as possible.

 

[kenny thomas]

Not about how big they get, the goal is how quick they can get big. Most calves raised end up in feedlots to grow and become beef. Bulls can be raised on a slower growing ration to hopefully make them last longer but their progeny had better have the ability to grow fast and get to desired slaughter weights as quickly as possible.

I totally agree. I dont buy bulls that have been pushed and dont push them myself. But i want calves that grow like a weed. If the genetics are there the bull can weigh 1800 or 2200 and im happy. I only sell the bull once but sell his calves every year.

 

[gcreekrch]

I totally agree. I dont buy bulls that have been pushed and dont push them myself. But i want calves that grow like a weed. If the genetics are there the bull can weigh 1800 or 2200 and im happy. I only sell the bull once but sell his calves every year.

If they stopped at 1600 they would last forever.