denoginnizer
Well-known member
Yes, the first calf usually pulls them down because the young cow is still growing and trying to nurse the calf. Cows in poor body condition often dont re-breed.angie2":34sz3j6w said:
How do you expand your herd?
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cypressfarms
Well-known member
angie2":3qot4mz2 said:
Angie, Don't take this the wrong way - your thinking about it from the wrong point of view. If you have a heifer that has just given birth (god forbid if you had to pull it or it was a hard labor) to then pour the feed to her is poor cattle management. If your going to have heifers at least bring them into calving with a good BCS so even if they do lose a little, they can still rebreed. As Deno said, a young heifer is still growing herself - asking her to do that and feed a calf is a lot. She will naturally give everything she's got to the new calf to her physical detriment - possibly not cycling soon. This is why you see some cattlemen wait to breed their heifers until around 15 months (although they may cycle sooner), and also why heifers with their first calves get the nicest pastures (ryegrass down here)
cypressfarms":1ncn4xia said:
Yes ~ that makes perfect sense.
Our girls are more than ready for that as far as BCS is concerned, and we did not breed until they were 15 months. Thank you for taking the time ~ I appreciate it!
As I stated before, we retain our own replacements. Now, the fact that I retain a heifer calf, doesn't seem like a loss to me. Sure, I don't get the cash at auction, but that heifer is still value to my bottom line. As far as Caustics statement about calving heifers being a crap shoot, I disagree there as well. In the last five years of calving heifers (10-12 per year) I have not pulled one calf. Call it luck if you want, I call it using the right breeding stock. I don't look at weaning weights, yearling weights, etc on EPDs for heifers. BW only. I just want a live calf that first year, not concerned with color or anything else. I've pulled a lot of calves in my time,.....90% of them from replacement heifers I purchased at auction. Just my experience, yours may be different.dun":2yretsrd said:
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
alftn":odqogm6y said:
If they are a tax write off then why are you retaining at all? The retained heifers have no value to the IRS for loss purposes in the event of a loss. You have no depreciation in the retained heifer only upkeep which you also have in the purchased cow. The purchased cow at least has some protection against loss as she has a value that can be written off.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
We keep our own heifers for breeding. Might not be the most economical but we have our reasons.
You know what you have.
risk of bringing in disease is minimal.
to us these are the most important reasons "for us"
We bought bred heifers from a guy who we knew his herd health program to be like ours. Out of 25 blacks, who were suppose to have ease of calving by a black bull, two white calves emerged. 1 hard pulls requiring vet assistance, three bad shaped udders, and a pile of scours costing us alot. And interest on the loan.
The only good that came out of it was more gnetics to work with when keeping replacements later on.
3 in1 cows might have been better for us but then the disease factor comes in.
You know what you have.
risk of bringing in disease is minimal.
to us these are the most important reasons "for us"
We bought bred heifers from a guy who we knew his herd health program to be like ours. Out of 25 blacks, who were suppose to have ease of calving by a black bull, two white calves emerged. 1 hard pulls requiring vet assistance, three bad shaped udders, and a pile of scours costing us alot. And interest on the loan.
The only good that came out of it was more gnetics to work with when keeping replacements later on.
3 in1 cows might have been better for us but then the disease factor comes in.
Grubbie saies it well,(knock on wood), I do not lose calfs(only one in 9 years out of a heifer I bought), I have never had to pull a calf...ever..I breed them later than some, cull the smaller one,to help prevent problems, and practic good animal husberty..Keeping a heifer adds to my bottom line, and I do write off any food,vac.,etc. Yes I do hve to wait to get me returns on the cowbut it does come...
MoGal
Well-known member
Alftn: by retaining heifers, aren't you also losing the depreciation/cost writeoff on your taxes? In comparison, if you buy them then you can depreciate but not if you raise and keep them............ maybe I misundstand the tax laws.
I recently bought just some crossbred cows from a man in Granbury for $600. They all were bred and they all have had their calves. I just looked around in the classified ads in the livestock section and I found several good deals. This was an old man that was getting out of the business and he was happy to sell them to me for that price.
At our place it is selfsaid to keep your own heifers, because you make them tame, you know they will be big enough to calve if you are the one that feeds them, and their heritage is known to you, and also; when it comes to calving, you will know when and by what bull. Less surprises basicly!
TexasBred
Well-known member
I raise my replacements but keep only those that I determine are better than their mom. Can't remember the last calf I ever pulled on a heifer. We too choose to AI heifers to a bull chosesn primarily on how BW. Good managment all around and good nutritional program are extremely important. Every year we ask a cow to give birth to a calf, produce enough milk to grow that calf out, improve body condition after calving and breed back again in 90 degree heat. Now that's asking a lot of any cow. I don't push my heifers to any particular weaning weight. I let the cow decide when to wean but I do make double sure that the cow is bred back very soon after giving birth. Some of my heifers will start cycling at 8-9 months. I don't even try to bred until they reach 850 lbs. regardless of age. This is probably not the most profitable way to operate but it works for me and there is a lot of pleasure that comes with it. To me that has value as well. I take pride in knowing that the cattle are raised on my place rather than telling folks where I bought them and why those first calves looks so darned ugly. :dunce:
Saw a jersey bull running with a herd of brangus cattle just the other day. I'm sure when they hit the sale ring they will have been bred by a low birthweight black bull.
Saw a jersey bull running with a herd of brangus cattle just the other day. I'm sure when they hit the sale ring they will have been bred by a low birthweight black bull.
~
Our private treaty buyers like the fact that our cows & stockers are born, raised and grazed on our property and that I can easily show them 4 generations.
Consumers want a history with their food these days, weather it be cheese, meat or milk.
We raise our own replacements and sell them at a premium price when someone wants one. They are calm, healthy, respectful of fences, dog/ kid friendly, bunk trained, come when called and a few are halter trained.
The man up the road constantly buys unknown cattle from the livestock sales in New York and is always having major health issues amongst his imported cattle.
I see the vet's truck there often.
Every week his "new" cattle have run thru his fences and are on the roads and snowy hillsides heading for town.
He has approached me several times with "great deals" on 2 in 1's and bred cows.
He recently offered me 25 stockers for $60/100wt.
No Thanks. He can keep his depreciations.
Our private treaty buyers like the fact that our cows & stockers are born, raised and grazed on our property and that I can easily show them 4 generations.
Consumers want a history with their food these days, weather it be cheese, meat or milk.
We raise our own replacements and sell them at a premium price when someone wants one. They are calm, healthy, respectful of fences, dog/ kid friendly, bunk trained, come when called and a few are halter trained.
The man up the road constantly buys unknown cattle from the livestock sales in New York and is always having major health issues amongst his imported cattle.
I see the vet's truck there often.
Every week his "new" cattle have run thru his fences and are on the roads and snowy hillsides heading for town.
He has approached me several times with "great deals" on 2 in 1's and bred cows.
He recently offered me 25 stockers for $60/100wt.
No Thanks. He can keep his depreciations.
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
When expanding around here, I do all of the above posted ideas, however I really prefer to raise my own replacements. Given what calves are worth, versus buying bred replacements, the raised replacements end up being cheaper in the long run and I end up with more cash in my pocket, which is what we're all aiming for, right? Caveat: this year, bred replacements are selling dirt cheap up here.
Raising your own replacements has its advantages in that you have a pretty good idea of what you've got around the placefor genetics, and you have some disease resistance already in the stock. Buying from outside the ranch, especially if you're new to the business or don't have a reliable supplier, can be a crap shoot.
Rod
Raising your own replacements has its advantages in that you have a pretty good idea of what you've got around the placefor genetics, and you have some disease resistance already in the stock. Buying from outside the ranch, especially if you're new to the business or don't have a reliable supplier, can be a crap shoot.
Rod
novatech
Well-known member
Success either way is dependent on your knowledge or skill. More importantly it may be dependent on ones willingness to cull.
