How did you decide on number of cows?

[herofan]

For those with a grazing, cow/calf, herd, how did you decide on the number of cows to have assuming ideal conditions? That seems like a "duh" question in one respect, but I notice it varies among people, regardless of land. I notice some farmers have so many cattle that they keep the pasture picked to the ground all the time. If even a mild drought occurs, their pasture looks like dirt and they are feeding hay in July. I notice others don't have so many and, therefore, don't have that problem.

In my situation, I have 130 acres, half in pasture, that has been handed down and paid for. There are certain things i will do to maintain it whether I have 0 cows or 30. I know that more expense comes with more cows, but I assume there must be a good number that will pay for the upkeep expenses and make a few bucks to boot. I also assume one could have so few cows that it would just be a waste of time.

I'm not asking anyone to get necessarily evaluate my situation, but just explain how you arrived at the number of cattle you have considering your land and needed profits.

 

[James T]

With "ideal" conditions, you could have 1 or more per acre, but, seldom is every year ideal. You have can have harsh Winters, harsh droughts, insects, etc. So, my very best advice would be to test your soil to see what it needs for you to grow whatever grass you choose and then decide how many $'s you are willing to put into the effort. That answer will pretty much dictate how many you can support. What we are talking about here is basic infrastructure to support an effort. The more thought out and solid it is, the more enjoyable and profitable the exercise will be.

 

[bigbull338]

your q is easy to answer once a few other things are known.how harsh is your winter,how long is your growing season.what your pastures are planted to.how much hay pre cow pre winter.with 130acs you should be able to carry 30 cows even in a bad year.

 

[Isomade]

The question is 100% unanswerable. Any two places will be different even if they are side by side. Location, weather, soil, improved or unimproved pastures, fertilizer use, density and a whole host of things go into the figure. As for me, I run enough cows to be able to not feed hay in a drought year where the drought is severe, but not lasting more than two months without some rainfall during the growth season.

 

[Anonymous]

Iso has a good plan. Around here most say 1 au per acre. Last 2-3 years of less than average rainfall and I'm learning a few things. Now I'm shooting for 1 au to 3 acres with minimal input.

 

[herofan]

your q is easy to answer once a few other things are known.how harsh is your winter,how long is your growing season.what your pastures are planted to.how much hay pre cow pre winter.with 130acs you should be able to carry 30 cows even in a bad year.

In my area of KY, winters are unpredictable, but we rarely have a really harsh winter. We haven't had a really harsh winter for years, and our idea of harsh is probably nothing compared to other places. Last year, we barely had snowfall, and grass was available until into January. Summers are fairly mild, in my opinion. This year, it got really hot and dry and things were looking pretty bad for about a month, and then it rained as it always does. Around here, spring hay was lacking from previous years, but fall hay produced more than normal, so it seems to balance out.

 

[Jogeephus]

One way you could approach this is to look at what the extension service recomends for your area and cut it in half. Not saying they are wrong but they do a lot of stuff with a pencil and while you can do what they say its going to cost you both in time and money and when its all said and done you will have made the money they predicted but you will have exerted so much time and energy in the venture it really doesn't make financial sense unless you just enjoy working for nothing and not being able to go anywhere or do anything. AND, like you say, when some bad weather hits - and it will - you will go in the hole because you are already maximizing your resources and the only way you will be able to continue is to raise the carrying capacity by purchasing feed or forage.

IMO, the best way to go at it and make money is to either decide if you want this to be a full time job or just an additional source of income. If its an additional source of income, cut their number in half. Don't go buying everything they tell you to and what will happen is your cattle and your resources will not be stressed and you will clear nearly as much money as you would have the other way but with significantly less inputs.

Ideally, in a perfect world, no one would know I had cattle and I'd be on a 365 day calving season and I'd go to a different sale barn every day of the week and sell the daily calf.

 

[herofan]

One way you could approach this is to look at what the extension service recomends for your area and cut it in half. Not saying they are wrong but they do a lot of stuff with a pencil and while you can do what they say its going to cost you both in time and money and when its all said and done you will have made the money they predicted but you will have exerted so much time and energy in the venture it really doesn't make financial sense unless you just enjoy working for nothing and not being able to go anywhere or do anything. AND, like you say, when some bad weather hits - and it will - you will go in the hole because you are already maximizing your resources and the only way you will be able to continue is to raise the carrying capacity by purchasing feed or forage.

IMO, the best way to go at it and make money is to either decide if you want this to be a full time job or just an additional source of income. If its an additional source of income, cut their number in half. Don't go buying everything they tell you to and what will happen is your cattle and your resources will not be stressed and you will clear nearly as much money as you would have the other way but with significantly less inputs.

Ideally, in a perfect world, no one would know I had cattle and I'd be on a 365 day calving season and I'd go to a different sale barn every day of the week and sell the daily calf.

Thanks for the input; it sounds like a great idea to me. I am doing it for "extra" income only. I currently have 16 head and that's not stressing out my pasture or work load. I may go to 20 head. I'm sure the extension service would say i could handle a much larger herd, but your comments make a lot of sense.

 

[cow pollinater]

It's a balancing act. I'm stocked light because I've expanded my land really quickly but we were in a drought for most of the winter and my weaning weights were better than anyone elses and that is directly related to my low stocking rate. I figure I made about what I would have if I'd have been fully stocked but I did it with extra growth instead of numbers.
I guess I'd lean towards running a few less than you can handle(especially with hay costing what it has in the last couple years) and counting on the cows doing better and selling more pounds per calf in the good years and having a little lighter crop without culling good cows in the bad years. I know of a few that stock heavy and they really got burned this year but the guys that leave a little room for error came out okay with a decent calf crop and not a lot of extra hay to the cows. If we get rain this winter they will be the real winners as their country will turn around alot faster than the country that got used all the way to the ground.

 

[clayknob]

Sounds like you're on the right track. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is rotational grazing......If you have time to rotate, you could stretch your cows further. Also if the tillable could be fenced you could graze cover crops in the winter to lower hay consumption, however certain winters just aren't decent enough weather-wise to make good use of the cover crops.....The main advantage of winter grazing is the ability to sell your hay if you don't need it. One other thing to consider is your water resources.....espcially how good your water is in a dry spell.

 

[shaz]

I'm at one AU per 5 acres in zone 7. Sounds bad but I'm on rock mostly and can't do much more. Cedar trees and limestone and .well...you get the idea.

But hey, the land was cheap so why not?

 

[denvermartinfarms]

For my area i figure 3 acres per pair and unless we have a bad drought that works just fine.you say that you have about 65 acres of pasture if you are not cutting any hay on it and it is all one field i would figure 20 pairs and a bull.If you had say 55 of it in 4 fields for the cows you could probably have 20 pairs on that and then have the other 10 in 2 or 3 fields and then wean and put all your calves on that and feed them to what is best for your market.

 

[fitz]

The question is 100% unanswerable. Any two places will be different even if they are side by side. Location, weather, soil, improved or unimproved pastures, fertilizer use, density and a whole host of things go into the figure. As for me, I run enough cows to be able to not feed hay in a drought year where the drought is severe, but not lasting more than two months without some rainfall during the growth season.

That's it. It's taken me years to determine a reasonable average. Like everyone else, some years I have too many and some years not enough. No two years of weather the same, but hopefully they average out. It's better to start out lighter stocked and add to it with your own conditions and experiences.

fitz