How deep for h-braces and corner posts.

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bobrammer

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I'm replacing all of the H-braces and corners on my pasture. I plan to use 1 1/2" schedule 40 pipe. Pipe will be notched and welded. I will set the posts in concrete. How deep do I need to go in DRY clay soil? How close should I space the H-braces? Fence lines are approximately 1300 feet across the front and 1500 feet from front to back. Has anyone found a paint that holds up well? Many thanks!
 
bobrammer":1z7v0s60 said:
I'm replacing all of the H-braces and corners on my pasture. I plan to use 1 1/2" schedule 40 pipe. Pipe will be notched and welded. I will set the posts in concrete. How deep do I need to go in DRY clay soil? How close should I space the H-braces? Fence lines are approximately 1300 feet across the front and 1500 feet from front to back. Has anyone found a paint that holds up well? Many thanks!

I would use at least 2 3/8" pipe for my H-posts. I usually make the H at least 5' wide and I like to put 4 rails in it and a kicker with a deadman. I usually put everything in the ground 2 1/2' - 3', and pour concrete around them.
 
I know pipe is a little expensive but if you are going to go through the expense and effort then I'd upsize those corners too. I just finished using 4" posts w/ 2" heavy wall cross pieces. I'd go at least 3' deep but if at 3' you can go deeper then do so, but thats probably not going to be the case.
 
How are you guys notching material that large? I went with 1 1/2 schedule 40 because the largest notcher I could find was for 2" diameter. The 1 1/2 schedule is 1.90 O.D. with a a .145 wall thickness. I was thinking that would be plenty strong enough with proper bracing / deadman. Thanks for the input.
 
Just drill a hole in the big piece of pipe and insert the smaller pipe and weld it up....no need to notch. Inserting the smaller piece through the bigger one is much stronger than notching, specially once you get good and can drill both sides of the pipe and stick the smaller piece all the way through to weld both sides.

Only drawback is you need to assemble it before you put it in the ground.
If you're digging holes and setting it into concrete anyhow it shouldnt be that big of a deal though.

Build the corner assembly on a nice flat garage floor then run it out with machine and set it into your holes.

Personally if I'm using 4" or heavier pipe I don't bother with braces.....sink it 3 or 4 ft and pour some concrete around it. You'll break your fencing before you bend a 4" pipe.

If you're making a deadman and a fancy corner the 1-1/2 once its all tied together should be more than strong enough.
 
bobrammer":2aek5hzz said:
How are you guys notching material that large? I went with 1 1/2 schedule 40 because the largest notcher I could find was for 2" diameter. The 1 1/2 schedule is 1.90 O.D. with a a .145 wall thickness. I was thinking that would be plenty strong enough with proper bracing / deadman. Thanks for the input.

You can make a template on paper. Transfer that to flat sheeting. Cut your pattern out. Rivet together and you got one.
Drill a small hole below, but in the middle of one of the notchs.
Most pipe has a seam line. By putting the hole on the seam on both ends your saddle cuts will be lined up. This works pretty well to make saddle cut patterns for different sizes of pipe. Matching 2 7/8 to 2 7/8 is different than matching 2 7/8 to 5" and like that. I'll edit this with a pic when photobucket gets back up.
IMG_0204.jpg
 
bobrammer":21m4p5dm said:
How are you guys notching material that large? I went with 1 1/2 schedule 40 because the largest notcher I could find was for 2" diameter. The 1 1/2 schedule is 1.90 O.D. with a a .145 wall thickness. I was thinking that would be plenty strong enough with proper bracing / deadman. Thanks for the input.

When cutting saddles to fit the rails, I have some templates that clamp onto the pipe (2 3/8", 2 7/8", etc). You can buy these at a local welding supply store for $10 - $15. All you do is clamp it on the pipe, draw around it with soap stone, and cut.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200306063.htm
 
length of material generally dictates how I would cut it up. 24' pipe gets you 3 pieces of 8' material. Sink it 3 ft. in the ground and it leaves you with 5' to work with. 20' pipe gets you (2) 8 ft. post with a 4' drop left over for your horizontal H piece. Saddling the horizontal members is the easiest way to go if you have access to a torch.Its easy enough to eyebal cutting a saddle in. A good weld all around and you wont be able to tell the difference. As far as pipe size, the 2-7/8 O.D. pipe which I think is considered 2 1/2" pipe I.D. is plenty strong. If you are going to have any cross fencing, you should then build an "L" shape intermediate support.
 
This is what I used:

5 1/2" pipe posts for corner H braces w/ 2 3/8" pipe for the brace - saddle cut to fit between the posts. Post were min. of 3' deep in concrete; also filled 5 1/2" pipe with concrete to top. For the length of the H brace, I try to acheive 2 1/2 times the height of the fence; though will settle for 2X depending on availability of material.

For in-line H braces I use 2 3/8" pipe for both posts and brace - 3' deep, concrete, and 2 1/2 X length. I put in-line H braces approx. every 660 ft.

Good Luck!
 
bobrammer":21s3jm40 said:
I'm replacing all of the H-braces and corners on my pasture. I plan to use 1 1/2" schedule 40 pipe. Pipe will be notched and welded. I will set the posts in concrete. How deep do I need to go in DRY clay soil? How close should I space the H-braces? Fence lines are approximately 1300 feet across the front and 1500 feet from front to back. Has anyone found a paint that holds up well? Many thanks!


4 feet is the answer I think you are looking for. Wood, steel or other 4 ft.


Scotty
 
2 inch pipe, that's 2 3/8" O.D. Schedule 40, will bend if you put enough tension on the wire. Go atleast 2 1/2" on your pipe, and I'm talking 2 1/2" inside diameter or 2 7/8" outside diameter. Personally, I'd use 3 inch pipe. The 1 1/2" you have will be just fine for cross bracing. You can either saddle it as previously explained or else egg it with a sledge hammer and weld it up. If you saddle it, it will look much better.

If you use the template as described, the saddles on each end will have to match. What I do is lay two pipes of the same size side by side. Then I take a file and run across them both such that I get a scribed centerline on the ends. Then I take my pipe templates and align my marks with the scribes.

Pipe sizes all go by inside diameter up until you get to 14 inch pipe or so. Hence, if you go to the hardware store and ask for 1 inch pipe it will be 1 3/8" outside diameter. If some layman tells you that he has 3 inch pipe and its 2 7/8" outside diameter, you are buying 2 1/2 inch.

Drill stem works great and it has work hardened. It does not tend to bend the way new schedule 40 bends. The problem is that the work makes it become magnetic and difficult to weld. You can resolve that by heating it with a torch and allowing it to cool but that also affects the temper. If you saddle it, you have already heated the cross brace part.

4 feet deep holes are good in clay. In limestone, 2 feet is plenty if you are in the stone and concrete the pipe to the stone (you aren't budging the stone when you pull the wire).

I made the mistake of using huge cedar posts on my first fence. In 1990, a grass fire that started two miles away took out that fence. I'll never use wood again on a perimeter fence. I spent hours bursting through limestone to put in those wood posts. Now I use 3 inch pipe or square tube and I'm done for the rest of my life, unless someone runs off of the road and takes it out.
 
i would use the 2 7/8 drill stem for the braces.b/c they are the load bearers of the fence.an in time smaller pipe will give an bend.i used the drill stem an put it 2 1/2 ft deep in concrete.put the pull braces every 100 to 150ft a part.
 

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