Who is making the most money the person with the 1600-1800 pound cow that can calve bigger calves or the 1200-1400 pound cow who calves smaller calves, keeping in mind the feed needed for each. I guess I am saying which size cows are maximizing our profits.
How big is too big?
- Thread starter shutskytj
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shutskytj":2m1opqe5 said:
The ones that best fit within your envronment. In the desert the cows probably ran around 950-1000, but they had to cover a lot of territory to get enough groceries. Improved pasture and larger cw would be better cause they don;t need to rustle for their grub and will wean a comparitively heavier calf.
dun
shutskytj":37sj554t said:
While it's true that a larger cow has more maintenece reuirements then a smaller cow, it isn;t directly proportional to the size. A cow that's 20% heavier doesn;t require 20% more nutrition.
If you sell by weaning weight, is possible that the higher weight calf will bring more dollars after the maintenance costs are figured in.
Stop me if yu've heard this before, but a lot of it goes back to marketing. If the market wants 6 weight calves and you're weaning 450s, to get them up to that weight is going to cost more dollars. You gotta know your costs of production.
dun
No don't stop Dun I guess my point I don't want 400 pound calves either but the real big cows could give 800-900 pound calves as well I guess what I am trying to say which sixe cow maiximizes each ones profit I know when the cows get too big they eat too much for me I had one and compared to my smaller cow she had bigger calves but it seems to me my smaller cow was more profitable the calves were still ideal weight
shutskytj":1ta84n5u said:
Forage base and how much nitrition is in it. I've seen cows on what appeared (the operative word is appeared) to be really good not raise as good a calf as you would think just because ofthe poor quailty of the forage. The larger cows, not just height but diameter can consume a whole lot more feed and spend more time ruminating then grazing.
Of course I'm just an old phart basing it on what I've seen. Haven;t run cattle in all parts of the country and each area is different.
dun
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Area - area - area. Like dun says, you have to match your resources & market to the size of cows.
In our area, the extension even preaches that we need larger cows out here. Now, larger, meaning BIG VOLUME heavier weight cows - not 9 frame 1600# - more like 6 frame 1400-1600#. Also, remember when you're talking maintenance - it's not just how much she eats. Its every cow, needs to be worked thru the chute for vaccinations, every cow needs to be calved out, every cow needs MANAGEMENT. I would rather take care of 40 GREAT cows than 60 mediocre ones. This holds true even for a commercial herd.
And Dun put it very nicely 20% heavier does not relate to 20% more feed.
In our area, the extension even preaches that we need larger cows out here. Now, larger, meaning BIG VOLUME heavier weight cows - not 9 frame 1600# - more like 6 frame 1400-1600#. Also, remember when you're talking maintenance - it's not just how much she eats. Its every cow, needs to be worked thru the chute for vaccinations, every cow needs to be calved out, every cow needs MANAGEMENT. I would rather take care of 40 GREAT cows than 60 mediocre ones. This holds true even for a commercial herd.
And Dun put it very nicely 20% heavier does not relate to 20% more feed.
randiliana
Well-known member
The rule of thumb that we go by is that a cow should wean at minimum 50% of her body weight, so figure 1000 lb cow/500 lb lb calf, 1600 lb cow/800 lb calf. Our cow herd is in the 1200 lb range, and our weaning weight is about 600 lb at 8 months, and we are above average in our area. There aren't too many 1600 - 1800 lb cows that are weaning 800-900 lb calves out there.
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":xbs7u3y1 said:
Yep, sometimes it means more than 20%, depending on the breed, how easy keeping the animals are, and the temperature. My 1200-1400 lb animals eat close to 1/2 as much as the neighbors 1800 lb animals when the mercury drops to -20F. The smaller framed animals are simply easier keeping in extreme environments (above 80F, below -20F). And within my own herd, I have a significant feed differential. My Shorthorns and Shorthorn/Angus cross animals will consume less feed daily than the same sized Angus/Maine and Angus/Simm cross cows I have here.
Having run weight range cattle between 1000 lbs and 1800 lbs, my best returns are on the 1400 weight cows, in my area. The little 1000 lb cows were awful easy keeping, but they didn't wean much calf and feedlot performance on those calves was down. The 1800 lb animals weaned off nice calves, but feedlot performance was the same as calves from the 1400 lb animals, and the feed bill was out of proportion to the extra weight they were carrying.
Rod
Thanks for the responses I was going by how in the 80's they were trying to breed these 9+ framed heavy weights and later on quickly breed them down again because maybe they were finding these horses not making totally profits on the amount having to feed them like dun said in extreme weather the big ones eat alot more
goddy
Well-known member
hi
My Dad , a lifelong cattleman , always used to say " its not how big they get, its how they get big "
Goddy
My Dad , a lifelong cattleman , always used to say " its not how big they get, its how they get big "
Goddy
MTNMAN,
You have no idea if these cattle are to big or not. You have never seen them before and so you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because it isn't what you want, does not mean it isn't what everyone wants. Those cattle had some extra feed and got great weights, but it doesn't mean they are too big. In fact they are almost all 5.5 to 6.5 frame.
Answer me these questions mtnmn
- How many cattle have you ever finished out on feed?
- What makes you the most money in the feedlot, carcass
quality or gainability?
- Are pounds king?
- What does the feeders pay premiums for, short dumpy cattle
or bigger framed good boned cattle?
- If we want a premium for our calves, who do we have to
please, other commercial cattleman or the feeders?
From now on, don't step on my customers career!!!
You have no idea if these cattle are to big or not. You have never seen them before and so you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because it isn't what you want, does not mean it isn't what everyone wants. Those cattle had some extra feed and got great weights, but it doesn't mean they are too big. In fact they are almost all 5.5 to 6.5 frame.
Answer me these questions mtnmn
- How many cattle have you ever finished out on feed?
- What makes you the most money in the feedlot, carcass
quality or gainability?
- Are pounds king?
- What does the feeders pay premiums for, short dumpy cattle
or bigger framed good boned cattle?
- If we want a premium for our calves, who do we have to
please, other commercial cattleman or the feeders?
From now on, don't step on my customers career!!!
rkm
Well-known member
In the dairy business they have been telling us for years we should breed a moderate 1400 lbs cow. But if you go to a replacement sale where they are selling cows and heifers the biguns bring the money.
Jeanne - Simme Valley":12m3nxmp said:
IF I am marketing calves off the truck at the sale barn, I would sure rather be selling 60 600 wt calves than 40 750 wt calves. Typically those 6 wt calves are going to bring more per pound than the 750s too. I disagree with Dun on the maintenance question. All the research I have ever seen show maintenance costs increasing at a greater rate that cow weight as cow size increases. You would think that feed costs would increase 50% as you switch from 1200 lb cows to 1800 cows, I think most researchers claim the real cost at about a 60% increase
ollie'
Well-known member
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Are there no cowboys left. Phenotype has more to do with maintenance than weight. If they're all bcs 6 and they are 6 frame and one weighs 1400 and one weighs 1200, I'll guarantee you the 1400 lb cow is easier keeping and requires less feed to maintain that bcs 6 which is what dun is saying I think. Volume....Brandonm2":25ufesgu said:
I wonder how long they had to cook the numbers to come up with the 5% difference between cow exposed and calf weaned to sway the numbers enough that they looked signifacnt.
We're also looking at different conditions in different areas. In the desert a 5-6 frame cow that weighed 100 was the way to go, but with the forage in most areas, unless overgrazed I don;t believe the 5% difference.
But, once again, I'm just an old phart and not trying to sell bulls and convince people that all of my bulls will fill every need.
dun
We're also looking at different conditions in different areas. In the desert a 5-6 frame cow that weighed 100 was the way to go, but with the forage in most areas, unless overgrazed I don;t believe the 5% difference.
But, once again, I'm just an old phart and not trying to sell bulls and convince people that all of my bulls will fill every need.
dun
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
ollie'":9vspfvh2 said:
Point taken, Ollie. When I discuss cattle weights, I often forget to mention that I'm talking about decent condition volume animals, tending to a little on the fat side. So a 1400 lb cow is going to equate to frame size 5 or so.
Rod
SEC
Well-known member
Weaning 1/2 their weight is a nice rule of thumb, I know guys who wean calves 80% of the cow weight, that's because they wait to have the cows kick the calves off. It's not a pretty sight mind you and he isn't the normal.
But depending on when you wean will help things out. Around here those who calve in March sell their calves in Oct and those that calve later wean the calves in November.
But depending on when you wean will help things out. Around here those who calve in March sell their calves in Oct and those that calve later wean the calves in November.
