How about VAR Foreman 3339 and VAR Index 3282

[TJSideBiz]

Good numbers on them just wondering about frame and foot score and temperament of offspring. I'll be putting them on Bismarck heifers. Looking to add some depth and a stronger topline. I think either bull will compliment them nicely. Plus, I really like their dam Sandpoint Blackbird 8809. I've seen her other offspring and like those as well. She's used at VAR, Herbster and Deer Valley so I'm guessing she's pretty darn good.
Anyone have experience with either? Opinions?

 

[bse]

I've got a couple of Index first calving heifers, I like them, so far no issues raising good calves. They will be 6 frame cattle I think. I bred 3 more heifers to him in Dec, I liked him good enough to go back to him.

 

[Welter Bros Angus]

We bought a cane of index 2 summers ago and got 5 calves. We kept a heifer back that was real deep off of one of our better commercial cows. Then we kept back a stud of a commercial bull this year that we plan to use as a cleanup bull after we AI. All the calves had really good docility and were all deep, long, and very athletic individuals. He had sub 80 bwts on our heifers and I was impressed with him, but decided to go a different direction this past summer. There are just too many good bulls out there. I really do like the 8809 cow and she has at least 7 bulls in stud right now as well as power play. So i would consider using him again. His calves are more vigorous than I thought they would be and grew fairly well compared to his weaning and yearling epds

 

[TJSideBiz]

Thanks, BSE. That's s good endorsement for Index. Did they come easy? I sure hope they aren't over 6 frame!

Welter, good info. Thanks. They sound like the kind of calves I'm looking for. I'm wondering why you got only 5 calves out of a cane? Did you not use them all or did some not settle? I'm used to 67ish lb calves so I'm a bit concerned about his BW +1.1. Now that you say "sub 80" I'm a little nervous. Hopefully his CED 10 will balance it out. Did your calves come easy?

Thanks for the input.

 

[W.B.]

I am not sure what you are looking for but Foreman being A son of Ten X, I would watch udders and feet. I doubt you will like them as cows if you keep replacements.

 

[TJSideBiz]

I am not sure what you are looking for but Foreman being A son of Ten X, I would watch udders and feet. I doubt you will like them as cows if you keep replacements.

That's a great tip for a newbie like me. :tiphat:

 

[Welter Bros Angus]

Well we just didn't have the best of luck with him. We also bought a cane of resource that summer and had 9 calves, just the luck of the draw I guess. We don't weigh the commercial calves, but it's easy for me to tell when a calf is over 80 lbs. He worked good on our heifers and we didn't have to pull any calves so that was a plus. My best guess would be 75 lbs or so. Personally, I don't like calves lower than 70 lbs, they just don't grow near as well, however there are exceptions.

 

[TJSideBiz]

Well we just didn't have the best of luck with him. We also bought a cane of resource that summer and had 9 calves, just the luck of the draw I guess. We don't weigh the commercial calves, but it's easy for me to tell when a calf is over 80 lbs. He worked good on our heifers and we didn't have to pull any calves so that was a plus. My best guess would be 75 lbs or so. Personally, I don't like calves lower than 70 lbs, they just don't grow near as well, however there are exceptions.

They seem to grow ok but I think I can do better. Trying to bump the BW up a tick while still keeping the CED 10-15 for my heifers. We finish out steers ourselves and might keep heifers if they're an improvement our current ones. It's a balancing act for sure.
I've been breeding exhibition poultry for many years. I'm familiar with line breeding where it's used extensively in an attempt to produce ones that meet the association standard for head shape, body type, eye color, color pattern, tail angle, foot shape.... Then throw in breeding for egg size and shape, mothering ability, docility, disease resistance... It takes years and years of hands-on experience. You learn that like begets like ... except when it doesn't which could be 9 out of 10 and average matings produce average offspring ...except when it produces a blue ribbon winner. It's a well-calculated well-educated crap shoot. An advantage in breeding poultry is that in one season I can mate a pair and get as many offspring as I can handle then mate the same pair to others and get a as many as I want. Just rotate them around. 4 males x 30 females = more chicks than I have room for! At least I can cull some within 1 month. :lol:
I'm taking my poultry knowledge and applying it to cattle. Easy-peezy except that I get only 3 shots for offspring each year so I gotta be sure which bull I choose. A big advantage cattle have is the EPDs. Plus, the ability to see offspring that others have produced gives a little guy like me some confidence.

 

[TJSideBiz]

I pulled the trigger and ordered VAR Index this afternoon! Thanks, BSE and Welter, your first hand knowledge sure helped me decide.