How about this niche in the market?

[Z&J Cattle]

I have given this quite a bit of thought and after going to the salebarn today, I am thinking about it even more and just wanted to get some opinions from some folks who have done this and what the ups/downs are and what kind of profit that you have made. Anyway, here it goes. For example, today at my local salebarn they had several broken mouth cows with calves. All were a little rough, some worse than others, but several of them sold for around $600/pair. This type of cows doesn't go this cheap every week around here, but if you will go regularly, they do fairly often. What I am thinking, is buy the pairs for $600 each (give or take). Wean the calf as soon as he is ready, load the cow up and go sell her for .45 cents/lb. Say she weighs 900, that is $405. Well, now you have $195 in the calf. Put him on feed and keep him until he weighs say 500. Sell him for 1.25/lb. That is $625. That is a gross profit of $430 in just a few months time. Now obviously, all of your expenses will come out of that, but even if you can clear $250-$300, you should be in pretty good shape. I know that obviously if the market tanks this won't work, but assuming that it stays fairly steady. The numbers that I used were from my local salebarn this week. If any of you folks have done something like this, let me know what you think about it and what kind of luck have you had doing it.

Thanks,

Zach

 

[Beefy]

a lot of people do that but sell the cow and the calf when the calf is big enough. some even feed the cow after that and sell her for a lot more when she gets in shape.

 

[la4angus]

a lot of people do that but sell the cow and the calf when the calf is big enough. some even feed the cow after that and sell her for a lot more when she gets in shape.

I know more people doing what Beefy is talking about here, than the other way around that you are talking of doing. This program has been very successful with most people that know what they are doing and have a reasonable priced feed.

 

[Scotty]

And some times the numbers never work out. What your are talking about I have tired. hit about 50-50 on the deal. Find chaep feed and go with it. Have vaccines and antibiotics on hand. A great set of pens helps. I would say watch the temperment of the cow and calve. this will makw a huge difference.


Scotty

 

[R ^ 5]

Zach,
I do this.I run the pairs on wheat pasture from about Dec.to the end of April,or first part of May,and then sell them.

The first thing you need to look at is the quality,and the genetics of the 600.00 pair.Not ever calf you raise from these pairs will bring 1.25 / lb and the cow may, or may not bring back the .45 / lb when you get ready to sell them.

I know when you are sitting at the sale barn, and you see a deal like that come in. You just can't help but think to your self, their just to cheap. Man they can't help but make money if the market doesn't bust in the next 5 or 6 months.

But hey, you won't know until you try it.And see how it turns out.
The best education will always be the one you learnd coming from your back pocket.

Good luck!

 

[Brandonm2]

Yes a lot of people do that. IF you have the grass and hay to winter pairs, you can make good money doing this. The market for females usually peaks in April-May. Buy a cow you think will live through the winter, run a mature bull with the cows early and often, sell the calf in March at around 400-500 wt and sell the slicked off cow in late April (when everybody has grass) hopefully 3-5 months bred. Find a stockyard that does NOT mouth bred cows ("let the buyer beware") and you should get most of your $600 back on the cow and pocket the $550 from the calf.

Be warned though that there are some nasty little things floating around in the nation's cow herd. I would not recommend (at this time) mixing a dozen of these pairs with a herd of cows that have been raised on your place. Having done this before, I recommend either being in the stockyard business or being in the calf/cow business and not mixing the two ventures. I would rather NOT bring IBR, BVDV, anaplasmosis, a new worm load, and/or Johne's disease into a herd of cows which you are proud of and want to continue generation after generation for the rest of your life.

 

[Beefy]

and the same thing goes for the land you wish to have a respectable herd of cattle on in the future. catchables arent the easiest to get rid of..

 

[la4angus]

Be warned though that there are some nasty little things floating around in the nation's cow herd. I would not recommend (at this time) mixing a dozen of these pairs with a herd of cows that have been raised on your place. Having done this before, I recommend either being in the stockyard business or being in the calf/cow business and not mixing the two ventures. I would rather NOT bring IBR, BVDV, anaplasmosis, a new worm load, and/or Johne's disease into a herd of cows which you are proud of and want to continue generation after generation for the rest of your life.

Very good recommendation Brandonm2. From what I have seen of people buying stockyard cattle and coming home and unloading them in with their cow herd , there must be many people who are not aware of this or just don't care.

 

[Bama]

I have done this in the past and made some pretty good money on them. A calf will pull down a smoothmouth if you are not carefull. If you have plenty of grass you can do a pretty good job. I take the calf off early and let her get back in better shape before taking her back to the barn.

 

[BC]

This program can work. Like some of the rest have suggested, do not mix these cattle with your regular herd. Run them on winter pasture as a seperate group. The reason for the winter pasture is it is high in protein and easily eaten by a cow with litlle or no teeth. The calf will be like a lightweight stocker calf.

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Thanks for the response everyone. Now, by keeping them seperate, do you mean just seperating them from one pasture to the next, or will that not be sufficient? I have 16 acres that will be divided into four equal pastures and I could keep them on a pasture that is diagonally across from the other cows, so they would be pretty well seperated, I just won't be able to keep them on the other side of the farm or anything like that since I am only working with 16 acres here. What do ya'll think?

Zach

 

[Brandonm2]

I would prefer having two different FARMS! non-adjoining!! IF they are not sharing a bull (and how they are not when you only have 16 acres is beyond me), there is still going to be nose to nose, fence to fence contact and the same horn fly which sucks the blood on those cull cows is going to be biting your cows' ears the same day. Also your tractor is going to carry cow patties from field to field on your tires when you put out hay. The same dogs, rats, birds, etc are going to be hopping from field to field so I question whether or not that is an effective enough buffer to prevent disease outbreaks.

You are small enough that if you do break with something selling out and replacing ALL the cows is not a major life changing event so this is much less risk than if you had 50 or more pairs; but all you are talking about is ~2-6 pairs or $600 to $1800 in profit (if nothing dies on you). You could make the same profit by buying three or four bred registered cows at the hind end of one of the weaker fall production sales, sell those fancy calves (particulary the heifers) next May/June with their momas through the want ads of any mag read by cattle enthusiasts and probably make the same profit for less risk and less work. Though even there there is still some biosecurity risk.

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Brandon, you sound like you have definitely done your homework. You make some very valid points. After the responses that I have received on this subject, it creates a new question for me. I know that every situation varies and there is no black and white answer for this question, but as a general rule, what would you guys say the best way to utilize my 16 acres for the greatest net profit would be? Stocker calves, cow/calf, registered stock, etc... I am just trying to explore my options and draw from others' experiences. Again, thanks for the opinions/advice.

Zach

 

[Brandonm2]

NOT homework....trial and error. For a small 16 acre deal, I LIKE the registered cow route IF you are willing to do the AI route and all the used car dealer type trading you have to do to make that work. A calf can have national champions on both sides of his lineage but he ain't worth a nickle more (and probably not as much) as a good crossbred calf IF he sells at the stockyard. It also can be a lot of fun for the kids (assuming you have kids). IF all you are looking for is something to cut grass with as little work as possible buy 400 wt calves and take them back to the sale as ~850 wt calves. IF you like to REALLY work and want to be a stock trader do that and ONLY that; but be warned that can be both stressful and occasionally risky. If you don't want to be a face to face salesman, ai cows, or troll your local auction barn get some decent commercial cows, a bull, and sell a few calves every year.

 

[Z&J Cattle]

I don't have kids yet, but what do you mean exactly that the registered route would be fun for the kids? Probably a dumb question, but I don't get it. Also, as for the AI, aren't there schools available to learn to properly do this? It seems like I had heard that before. How hard is it to learn to do? I kind of like the sound of the registered thing. How much, on average (ballpark), would I be looking at to purchase good registered young Angus/Brangus cows and/or heifers. One more thing, you mentioned the "used car salesman" approach to selling the calves. Do most people who raise registered stock sell all the calves to other registered breeders for breeding stock? As you said, at a salebarn they will be worth no more than any other calf and you are going to have to get a premium for them ( I would assume) for what you had to spend on their dames. But as I said, it may be a direction that I need to look at going, and that is what I am mainly looking for at this point, direction. Thanks again, Brandon.

Zach

 

[la4angus]

How much, on average (ballpark), would I be looking at to purchase good registered young Angus/Brangus cows and/or heifers.
Zach

Right now you will be paying from $1,000.00 up to probaly $5,000.00 for good registered Angus or Brangus Cows or hfrs. The low money would be young hfrs. Stuff from $2,000.00 and up would be for young hfrs to cows. Also If your pockets are deep enough you could pay much more for all classes.

 

[Brandonm2]

I don't have kids yet, but what do you mean exactly that the registered route would be fun for the kids? Probably a dumb question, but I don't get it.
Zach

I have never studied the actual finances of any of the breed associations; but I suspect that the percentage of their business that involves kids and kids' cattle is NOT insignificant. I am from a strictly commercial upbringing so most of MY experience growing up was strictly me and my grandfather, and I have NEVER married so I am not a show authority; BUT kids competing against each other in showing and fitting registered cattle is a very BIG DEAL to many families (much like sports except the team is the parents, the kid, and the calf) and some kids do manage to accumulate significant amounts of scholarship money.
http://www.jrhereford.org/tailored.aspx
http://www.njaa.info/
http://bamabeef.org/06SLEJLE.pdf
There are similar activities for kids with sheep, horses, chickens, even hogs. Obviously the kids usually like competing and socializing with their breed association friends more than being daddy's unpaid day laborer on a strictly commercial farm. IF you descide to sell registered cattle, providing kids with show steers and heifers is one potential market that should NOT be underestimated.

Yes, there are AI schools. Any of the AI companies can recommend a course. You have 16 acres and NO reputation so it is not likely that established registered breeders are going to buy many of your cattle. The little registered breeders have to hustle for customers. Generally they sell bulls to small local commercial breeders, new people such as yourself who they talk into the business, local kids who want a calf to show, and they consign lots to the occasional state breed association sale, heifer sales, bull sales, etc. The calves and cows that aren't GOOD enough to sell to a customer you hope to sell calves and cows too again plus those you can't find a buyer for end up in the stockyard with the calves of those $600 cows. Finding a niche where you can get the premiums you need to justify being in the registered cattle business requires a lot of work on the sales end.

I used to be able to say that you can find some starter registered females at the tail end of sales for less than $1000 a piece (and I have seen reg cattle...including Angus at much less than that). Right now the market is stronger than ever so sub $1000 females are probably in short supply. Don't buy $2000 to $5000 cattle. YOU as a newbie to a breed would not know enough not to get cheated, so it is better to buy avg cattle and breed them up as you learn bloodlines, EPDs, pedigrees, breeder reps, marketing, etc. without having so much invested.

 

[dj]

Kids = 4H and FFA projects,club calves,LOTS of extra hands on stuff.
With just 16 acres it's going to be hard to make "net" profit.
If you are just starting why not look at bottle calves?
3-4 of those will give you a real good education and you can make some money if you do it right. And not lose so much if you don't.

 

[Dana Kopp]

Even with bottle calves you still have the disease problem. You also don't know if the calf has had colostrum or not and his/her care or exposure to ?? (especially at the yards) up 'till you take him home. Our bottle calves were running $250 to $300 per calf last spring so that cuts the profit margin a lot.


Your idea is a good one. I would definitely be concerned with bringing in a variety of cows because of the disease factor. But I would also look hard at which ones I was picking as well. If it looks like someone's pasture dried up and the cows just need feed that is one thing, especially to buy several this way and feed them up and either re-breed them or just sell them open - might make another buck or two for a bred cow. You may decide to keep the cow around if she is actually young and just not well fed.

My husband's initial cow herd purchase was for several "shelly" cows and their calves. He fed them up, we sold the steer calves (made enough to break even on the whole purchase), kept the heifers, re-bred the cows, calved them out, kept the heifers, sold the steers & the cows. Nearly all of our present herd came from these first cows and their calves.

 

[Dusty Britches]

Personally, I think it is unusual to see pairs sell at the salebarn for that price. Our sale barn knows they can bring in more than that by splitting the pair. Their job is to bring me the most money and if they have to split them, so be it.