Horse with TMJ.....

[jersey lilly]

Anyone ever delt with this? So far we've had this horse in several times for chiro adjustments, this last month he went in twice, had accupuncture and adjustments both done. He worked halfway decent on a couple runs, now he's actin like he's super PO'd and sore. I know for a fact he's sore in his withers. I've messaged on him enuff to find several other places as well.

Ok with TMJ....it can make one sore anywhere from his head to his tail. The alternative treatment, after accupuncture and adjustments is, injecting the TMJ joint kinda like they do hocks and stifles. The only difference is, from what I understand from all the reading I've done is, it's a one time shot. You don't hafta keep goin back ever 3 to 6 months and have them injected again.

Anyone ever delt with a horse with this problem? It's about to drive me nuts that we can't get this horse fixed. He has so much potential as a barrel horse, that I just can't give up on him.

Also, we've had this horse a lil over two years. He's had this same problem the whole time, just none of the vets could put their finger on it. I'm the one that finally researched online cross referencing symptoms, till I finally settled on TMJ, then took him to the vet once again, and the vet confirmed it. He's a hard keeper. Had horrible teeth when we got him. We've had his teeth done every six months faithfully, by an equine dentist. Usually after the teeth work, he's better, but gets bad again in 3 months time, to the point that he's so busy shakin his head that he can't concentrate on his job. He's never refused to work, he just doesn't work well, if that makes sense. The first barrel to the right is his big problem, 2nd and 3rd he turns good. So that tells me there's more of a problem on one side than the other. He's a very hard keeper...which is another symptom of TMJ. I thought for a long time he was just that way. But now I'm told if we can get this TMJ business fixed he should start pickin up weight. He's not skinny poor or anything, he just doesn't thrive like the other horses do. I've put more feed into this one horse than I have 2 other ones with little results.

 

[peg4x4]

So his bottom jaw is out of joint? Poor guy must always have a headache. Hope you can get a handle on this,sounds like you're trying everything. Have you tried running him in a hacamore(bet you have) Good luck.

 

[Bez+]

With so many good horses available out there, and the price being darned near free if you find the right owner or sale barn - you are far more patient than I am.

He would go down the road in a heart beat and be replaced in no time if truly required.

Like cattle, horses on our place must maintain their usefulness or they will be culled and replaced - I now have a 50 buck limit on per animal costs as calves until weaned (considering a reduction here) and a 100 buck limit on cow and horse meds that are above and beyond normal maintenance.

More than that they leave for other venues.

Good luck.

Bez+

 

[jersey lilly]

Peg,
No...his jaw isn't "out of place" per say. It's more like the tendons and such that are in the hinge of the jaw are inflamed. It is caused from being out of alignment. But not out of place. Misalignment cause by his teeth not being done properly in the past. And once they are inflamed it takes quiet a bit to fix that, if you use the methods they've been trying. So I'm learning LOL And yes from what I've learned...they can have horrible headaches from this, just like humans that have TMJ do. He was ran in a hackamore for several months when we first got him (not knowing he had a problem then) and he was runnin thru it...no whoa. So went to a combo hack.

Bez,
This is not just a ranch horse. He's a barrel horse first. One of my daughters college rodeo horses. So it's on a totally different level. You can't expect an animal to give you what they do in this sport and not have any input or maintenance on that horse. They are athletes. And just like human athletes they have injuries, strains, sprains...etc., at $50 or $100 that your willin to spend....that's not a very big window for error, barely will cover the office call. And I'm not sayin that we operate our cow business like we do our barrel horses. Cows are not athletes. A ranch horse is a tool. And if your not willin to spend a lil money on upkeep of your tool.......that's your choice. I'd rather spend a lil money on a tool I already own, and know(That's kinda like buyin a new tractor ever time somethin goes wrong instead of fixin the one you already have)...I"m not gonna take my chances on some salebarn cheapo, that may have ten times more problems than somethin I already own. Or hafta spend minimum $600 a month for several months of training, and then that horse may or may not make a ranch horse or barrel horse. This horse has proven himself that he can be a winner. We just gotta get him right so he can do what he loves to do.

I have an appointment for him Tuesday to have his TMJ joint injected. From what I've read, and been told by the vets, it's a one time deal. You give them the injections, and it fixes the problem. Then you deal with all the soreness in the rest of their body, caused by compensating for the pain in the jaw. After that he should be good to go.

 

[peg4x4]

Ok,now you're gonna know I'm stupid or silly or deluded~and this wasn't a barrel horse-but this is how I taught my horse to stop . I'd work until he was a bit sweaty,ask him to woah..When he did,I'd get down,loosen the girth,raise up the saddle and blankets to let some cool air in. Re saddle,ride on. Next time I asked for a stop,he put on the brakes
quicker-same routine. I figgured the best way to let him know he had it right was to do something to show him "Yeah,that's it!".. I saw a guy ruin a colt trying for a rollback-colt was trying every way to please,finely did one-guy never let him know that was what was wanted-colt just gave up..

 

[Bez+]

Bez,
This is not just a ranch horse. He's a barrel horse first. One of my daughters college rodeo horses. So it's on a totally different level. You can't expect an animal to give you what they do in this sport and not have any input or maintenance on that horse. They are athletes. And just like human athletes they have injuries, strains, sprains...etc., at $50 or $100 that your willin to spend....that's not a very big window for error, barely will cover the office call. And I'm not sayin that we operate our cow business like we do our barrel horses. Cows are not athletes. A ranch horse is a tool. And if your not willin to spend a lil money on upkeep of your tool.......that's your choice. I'd rather spend a lil money on a tool I already own, and know(That's kinda like buyin a new tractor ever time somethin goes wrong instead of fixin the one you already have)...I"m not gonna take my chances on some salebarn cheapo, that may have ten times more problems than somethin I already own. Or hafta spend minimum $600 a month for several months of training, and then that horse may or may not make a ranch horse or barrel horse. This horse has proven himself that he can be a winner. We just gotta get him right so he can do what he loves to do.

I have an appointment for him Tuesday to have his TMJ joint injected. From what I've read, and been told by the vets, it's a one time deal. You give them the injections, and it fixes the problem. Then you deal with all the soreness in the rest of their body, caused by compensating for the pain in the jaw. After that he should be good to go.

I will give you the normal maintenance is higher in harder used horses - but this guy is used once and sits until fixed - a big difference.

With all the time and money invested you might have been better off to go find a new horse - there are trained ones out there as well. Some just about going to a new home for the cost of air.

Bet you have spent more than a couple hundred - probably more like a couple plus thou on this guy - not includingn up keep as an additional expense. Plus missed and lost competition costs. All in all this guy sounds like a possible pretty expensive can - even if he comes back now.

Emotional attachment perhaps?

Potential is fine, but if it prices itself out of the market then it is not worth it - even as a game it is still a business decision. And this is a two year problem with a pile of vets behind the problem according to you.

Unless it pays for itself it does not stay - so yeah - I am not in the game I admit - but the game either pays for itself or the game is pure expense. And that is no longer part of the plan in my - or many - others house.

Just proving my Dad's favourite expression: "The only thing cheap about a horse is the purchase price".

Be that as it may - your decision - just expressing an opinion - and as before - good luck

Bez+

 

[jersey lilly]

I will give you the normal maintenance is higher in harder used horses - but this guy is used once and sits until fixed - a big difference.

With all the time and money invested you might have been better off to go find a new horse - there are trained ones out there as well. Some just about going to a new home for the cost of air.

Bet you have spent more than a couple hundred - probably more like a couple plus thou on this guy - not includingn up keep as an additional expense. Plus missed and lost competition costs. All in all this guy sounds like a possible pretty expensive can - even if he comes back now.

Emotional attachment perhaps?

Potential is fine, but if it prices itself out of the market then it is not worth it - even as a game it is still a business decision. And this is a two year problem with a pile of vets behind the problem according to you.

Unless it pays for itself it does not stay - so yeah - I am not in the game I admit - but the game either pays for itself or the game is pure expense. And that is no longer part of the plan in my - or many - others house.

Just proving my Dad's favourite expression: "The only thing cheap about a horse is the purchase price".

Be that as it may - your decision - just expressing an opinion - and as before - good luck

Bez+

I never said he was used "once" and then let sit. He's been ran for 2 years. Even tho he's had problems.

A 1D barrel horse on the market today, will cost you anywhere from $10,000 on up to $100,000 and higher, dependin on how much money you have to play the game. The horse market in this aspect of it hasn't changed a whole lot because of the slaughter ban. These horses aren't cheap. We are not rich by any means. My daughter trained this horse for barrels herself with a purchase price of $1200.
Could we go out and replace him for what we've spent on him. I don't think we could even touch a horse like he is now... with the problems he has for under $5000. Have I spent that on him, No I have not. Floating teeth is maintenence that you hafta do on all of them. Each horse and how his teeth grow dictate how often. Most are once a year.....our equine dentist has stated that he's almost to the point of goin now on a yearly basis, instead of 6 mo. Up until this last month....he's been to the vet for what I'd call, somethin other than maintenence 3 times in the two years we've had him, about once ever six mo, but each time was for this existing problem, when he shows signs of bein really uncomfortable. In the two years we've owned him his winnings total about $2000, so I'd say he's pretty much payin his way so far. I"m not into "throwin away" a horse just because he has some issues. Now if it was dangerous issues yes.....I'd send one to the sale in a heartbeat. But he's never acted like he wanted to hurt anyone. I feel is it our duty as owners to try everything we possibly can to get him where he should be to do what we are asking of him.

 

[chippie]

I am guessing that you ride him with a bit. Have you tried a hackamore?

 

[jersey lilly]

Read previous post, in reply to Pegs question about hackamore use.

 

[chippie]

sorry. I skimmed the posts. What type were you using?

 

[jersey lilly]

As of right now....I honestly don't know the name of the combo hack. We've had it for about 8 or 10 years.....it has a chain mouth peice, the side part looks like a wonder bit, and then has a rope nose band that's wrapped with vet wrap. One side piece says "Josey" and the other side says "Trammell" I've looked and looked and can't find one that has those names....but I did find one that looks identical, and it's called a Stiver Hackamore made by Reinsman. And if you'da asked me before I found the names on the shanks, I'da told you it was a Reinsman. But I don't guess it is. Here's a picture of the Stiver that I found. Previous to this hackamore we were using a Jim Warner short shank hack, which he was runnin thru...

Trip to the vet today......they ultrasounded his TMJ joints, and found inflammation on the right side (first barrel, to the right where he's havin issues).....left side showed clean. He injected the right joint. Also done chiro work on him, and some accupuncture. Can't make a practice run til Sunday. He said to ride him, but no barrel work till then. I did however, talk to another lady last night from another board, that had her horses TMJ injected. And found out I actually KNOW her. lol And she said as soon as they done it....she went right back to ridin, and her horse is doing great now. So I'm hoping we have the same results with this horse.

 

[jersey lilly]

Ok she rode him today (friday). Just out in the pasture trottin some big circles and some big figure eights. Nice and slow and he did just great. Licked and chewed most of the time while she was ridin him (used the Jim Warner hackamore). After she was done, she sat there on him, talkin to me, and I asked her to see if he would flex any. He's NEVER flexed before while she's on him. He flexed on both sides....she worked with him a lil bit on it...and before she was done he was flexin to the stirrup. With no resistance. Came back to the house, unsaddled, and stretched him really good with treats.

 

[peg4x4]

I sure hope that works.. Oddly enough the right side of MY jaw is acting up (I gotta quit reading your posts!)
I haven't seen anyone about it yet,but my back teeth don't meet right now. Makes eating an adventure. And noisy. I'd hate for anybody to ask me to run a pattern right now!! Best of luck.