horse can't get up w/out help

[putnamd]

My morab recently can't seem to get himself all the way up to stand without help. you know how they get their front legs out and lunge forward get their hind legs under them and get up? He just can't get his legs under him and get the push to get up. I have to get a belt under him and hook to the loader tractor and help lift his rear. then hes up and trots around good to go. I used banamine for the max 5 days but still had to help lift him.
the vet did blood work and didn't find any problem. He suggeted a spinal problem but kind of ruled that out after the blood work. now he thinks its arthirtis. If it were arthirtis would n't you see him gradually getting harder to get up? so he has me giving him 1cm of bute twice a day. And I still have to get the tractor out and lift if he lays down. All other body functions seem good.
I thought possibly a pelvic fracture or rear leg strain but he trots around so well. I haven't ridden him since Dec. since we have been having cold weather and snow on the ground. If he'd stay up all the time it wouldn't be such a pain but about every other day or sometimes everyday he decides to lay down or roll.
has anyone had a similar experience? whats my options other then putting him down or selling for meat? Hes only 17yrs and in great shape. He likes to run and has always been spunky- an easy keeper no pass problems. what's your thoughts? I appreciate any suggestions.

 

[msscamp]

Based on your description, if he were mine I would put him down. Again, based on your description, it sounds like it's only going to get worse from here. Why put him through the wringer?

 

[Bez!]

My morab recently can't seem to get himself all the way up to stand without help. you know how they get their front legs out and lunge forward get their hind legs under them and get up? He just can't get his legs under him and get the push to get up. I have to get a belt under him and hook to the loader tractor and help lift his rear. then hes up and trots around good to go. I used banamine for the max 5 days but still had to help lift him.
the vet did blood work and didn't find any problem. He suggeted a spinal problem but kind of ruled that out after the blood work. now he thinks its arthirtis. If it were arthirtis would n't you see him gradually getting harder to get up? so he has me giving him 1cm of bute twice a day. And I still have to get the tractor out and lift if he lays down. All other body functions seem good.
I thought possibly a pelvic fracture or rear leg strain but he trots around so well. I haven't ridden him since Dec. since we have been having cold weather and snow on the ground. If he'd stay up all the time it wouldn't be such a pain but about every other day or sometimes everyday he decides to lay down or roll.
has anyone had a similar experience? whats my options other then putting him down or selling for meat? Hes only 17yrs and in great shape. He likes to run and has always been spunky- an easy keeper no pass problems. what's your thoughts? I appreciate any suggestions.

You cannot help him and the veterinarian cannot help him.

Choice number one - take him to a university school for a second opinion

Choice number two - keep doing the same thing.

Choice number three - put him down.

Personally - using only the info available - I vote number three.

More than a few of us have this T-shirt - so I understand the delimma. I also understand the fact that every once in a while WE - the humans - have to make responsible decisions that we do not like.

But making the tough decision is often better than making NO decision.


Stay well,

Bez!

 

[Alan]

Okay you don't want to put him down unless it is your last choice.

So please answer a couple of questions for me. Who suggested banimine? The reason I ask is banimine is for internal pain, such as colic, it wouldn't do a whole lot for what you're describing. It sounds like your doing right with the bute and a good dose, you just don't want to over do the bute or it will also cause colic.

When you where riding him in Dec. how did he do? what kind of riding? Walk, trot or heavy trails? How was he after a ride?

If the Vet suggested banimine and supplied it, it throws up a red flag. The blood work while was a good idea, sounds iffy on arthirtis. If you have had your horse for a while and riding him in dec. you would have noticed arthritis coming on, it is not something that happens in a short amount of time.

It could be one of a number of things, to me with the info I have, it sounds like some sort of injury to the hips, spin, stiffle (?). 17 is not that old. Could be a mild form of EPD or some other nervous system problem.

If he where mine and I didn't want to put him down, I would find a board certified equine vet or take him to a college of Vet Medicine for a second opinion.

This is just my opinion for what I would do if I didn't want to put him down and really wanted to know what was happening and could spend some more money on him. A lot of vets know a little about a lot, but it sound like you need a vet that knows a lot about horses.

JMO, good luck and keep us posted please,
Alan

 

[putnamd]

Thank you for your input. I think you're right I will discuss further w. vet about taking him to MSU. I can't just put him down Like that. To answer your Q's.
I called my first vet (an older horse vet & doesn't like to make farm calls)and he suggested the banamine to help get him up and continue use for next few days. As he layed down again I called a reputable equine vet- he came out helped me get him up and prescribed the bute.
When riden in Dec. it was a xmas parade-he likes to prance-kids like it. then trails-nothing rough-walk, trot.Seem to be normal.
Keep in mind that he just lays down maybe to rest or maybe hes sore but its not like he can't stand and falls down.

I am going to try to post this on some other sites also- I've got to try some other things-he's just too good of a horse to let go.
I know what the rest of you are saying and I guess if it comes to that I will have to-but need to try something yet.Thank you

 

[Alan]

Sounds like MSU is the place to go.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Alan

 

[clampitt]

On the blood work what specifically did they check for,and yes arthritis can come on in a hurry,we had two older mares here that got pretty bad in a few mo. both in there late 20.And they can get down and not be able to get up by themselves and Ban.or Bute will not be eneough pain killer and Ban.is not just for colic is is avery good pain killer and fever reducer.We use it in cattle for that.I take it when I'm sure hurting.My arthritis is really bad when it turns cold.damp.When get him up put a double blanket and hood on keep as warm as possible.Blankets and heat lamp if possible.Sure wouldn't hurt to check on potaasium and mag. levels if you have ever run out of pott.you will know how your muscles tie up mag. is muscle relaxer and I take them by themselves.Get him as warm as can see how that works.Plenty of electrolytes,they are as important in winter as summer.

 

[putnamd]

Clammpitt
thanks for the tips- had a blanket on him at first but seemed to be feeling good -but will get it back on him. Mag and potas/ levels were good vet said. will get some electrolytes going too-can't hurt. thanks

 

[rustydude]

Sounds like EPM. Had a friend in same situation just last month. Blood test couldnt give confirmation... Had to put her down.
Good Luck.

 

[Alan]

If they determine it is EPM, Bayer makes a medicine for it. Last I heard it ran about $1000 for just the meds but it is a cure, not a continuing prescription. I think it's a spinal tap to determine EPM. There is also an injection that a Vet can give a horse in the joints to help with lubecating the joints. Then start the horse on MSM and/or glucosimine (sp), if it is a arthritis type problem.

JMO,
Alan

 

[putnamd]

Alan, Rustydude

I have been doing a lot of researching and It does appear to be
EPM. As I remember I did kill acouple of opossum in the hay mow last yr. so this is a possibility. I have a call into the vet to discuss this. thanks

 

[rustydude]

Putnamd , If it is EPM I hope Alan is correct about the Bayer product especially if it is a cure. Our Vet , Dr. Putnam indicated there was no cure for our friends mare and the second opinion backed him up... Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[longhorn314]

EPM is really rare and it could be a possibility if you have killed some possoms this past year in your hay but I don't think it is arthritis setting in that quick to get him down that soon.Good luck on finding out what is wrong with him

 

[Alan]

Putnamd , If it is EPM I hope Alan is correct about the Bayer product especially if it is a cure. Our Vet , Dr. Putnam indicated there was no cure for our friends mare and the second opinion backed him up... Good luck and keep us posted.

I may have not been completly right on the word "cure", but I'm sure Bayer makes it and it's a single treatment (seems like once a day for 7 days, may be more). And your horse may still have EPM but not the effects. It's called Marquis here is the link:

http://www.bayerdvm.com/product_antipro ... 2b96619195

 

[holly heifer]

We have had many horses in out area diagnosed with EPM.
All had different degrees of symptoms. Some were put down,
but several were saved and out now back to work and are just fine; all of these horses were 14 years old to 25 years old.
The best bet is a spinal tap. All of my horses are given a vaccine to prevent EPM, but should they ever be tested for
the ailment , they will test postive for it. MY horses are all
fine, and the neighbors horses were dropping like flys, so I do
believe in the vaccine. Possums are the carrier of it, so
KILL any you see! The ones on the road are fair game! Keep us updated and good luck!

 

[Alan]

Holly,

I haven't heard of the vaccs. for EPM I would be interested in finding out more about it. I you have some on hand could you give me the manufactor and/or what is called?

I may be wrong, as I am about many things these days, but besides possums, I believe raccoons carry it also. We have plenty of both.

Thanks,

Alan

 

[holly heifer]

Alan- The EPM vaccine is only available through vets,
here in Indiana the cost is $20.00 each, 2 shots needed at first
at about 4 weeks apart, and then yearly after that. You might look up a web site on EPM vaccine or Fort dodge( I am not sure
who makes it- there is only one manufactor to my knowledge.)
I have never had a horse react to it and have used it since it first came out--- probably 8years ago???? i can not seem to
remember! :roll: All I know is that it does work! My 27 year old AQHA is sound and still being shown and ridden and like I said we are in hotbed area for EPM. :x DOWN WITH POSSUMS
and RACOONS!!!!!

 

[Kelly]

Just a suggestion. I would check your selenium level & add if you need to. I would try giving some very good antioxidants & magnesium while you are waiting to get a diagnosis. Try high doses of vitamin E and add oil to the diet. I like soy oil.Start gradually with the oil though so the horse doesn't colic. These can't hurt & may help some. You could try wrapping the legs for some support - just make sure you wrap the correct way. Have you tried any liniment on the muscles? How are the muscles in the hind end? Is there muscle loss?

 

[dianab]

banimine is for internal pain, such as colic, it wouldn't do a whole lot for what you're describing.

Alan

Banamine is a pain killer and muscle relaxer and anti-inflammitory. That is why it helps with colic. Stops the pain and relaxes the gut so the gas or other problem can pass through a relaxed gut and stop the cramping.

Bute is pain killer and anti-inflammitory so would be the choice for arthritis since it is cheaper than banimine.

 

[Alan]

banimine is for internal pain, such as colic, it wouldn't do a whole lot for what you're describing.

Alan

Banamine is a pain killer and muscle relaxer and anti-inflammitory. That is why it helps with colic. Stops the pain and relaxes the gut so the gas or other problem can pass through a relaxed gut and stop the cramping.

Bute is pain killer and anti-inflammitory so would be the choice for arthritis since it is cheaper than banimine.

Without picking a fight because I feel you are 90% right about what you're saying. Banamine is a pain killer and an anti-inflammitory, but it is not a muscle relaxer any more than a human asprin is a muscle relaxer. While it does stop the pain of colic and is not as hard on the stomach as Bute is. Bute itself may cause colic and ulcers. But Bute is (IMO) a much better treatment for skeletal and muscle pain than Banamine is. Again in my opinion if a Vet was to prescribe Banamine for a horse that can't get up but does not seem to be in colic and in much pain while he is up, is a red flag that he or she may be guessing about the horses problem.

Even if they did prescribe the Banimaine for the prevention of colic, this horse hadn't had colic since it went down. To me it sounded as if the Vet was covering bases and not treating the symptoms.

No hard feelings, JMO
Alan