Horned Heifer

[Trixie Club Calves]

I already knew about "cosmetic dehorning". Way more than just dehorning. Sort of not a good image for the industry, I think. As far as "negative", it seems to me that most should find cosmetic dehorning much more negative than just using a polled animal for show. Really, the show thing is pretty far removed from the mainstream cattle industry. It promotes some traits that have no economic value, some that have negative economic value.

Reshaping the skull for a show - that's just extreme. Maybe like extreme cosmetic surgery for people.

I totally don't mind her having little Scurs or "nubs" I just don't want them to end up being horns she can use to hurt my other cows.

I've heard of people getting their "smart bumps" (what we call them lol) but the bump on the top of their heads cut off. And having a heifers extra teets cut off. It all seems a bit crazy to me.

 

[Brute 23]

I already knew about "cosmetic dehorning". Way more than just dehorning. Sort of not a good image for the industry, I think. As far as "negative", it seems to me that most should find cosmetic dehorning much more negative than just using a polled animal for show. Really, the show thing is pretty far removed from the mainstream cattle industry. It promotes some traits that have no economic value, some that have negative economic value.

Reshaping the skull for a show - that's just extreme. Maybe like extreme cosmetic surgery for people.

Why would it be a bad look? It's actually called surgical dehorning.

Is taking loppers, or saws, or the dehorning tool a better look, with no anesthesia, and letting the blood fly as you take a chunk?

 

[Brute 23]

Last year we took some bulls to get tested. The person in front of us was getting a surgical dehorn on show heifers. When the vet was cutting the heifer moved her head and broke the tip of his scalpel. It fell down in pocket where the horn would come out of. Not sure of it made it to nasal cavity or not. We were watching but not all up in the business.

He was legit though. He stopped, grabbed the phone, and a couple minutes later a line of like 6 women came in a line out of the main office. They had like a portable xray machine. A couple were suited up and one was holding a cover for him. They started taking pics and located the piece and removed it.

It was very interesting. I've seen that guy do some pretty neat stuff. He doesn't mess around. It's a little more pricey than our old cow vets but you also know you have the technology and experience, if you want it, if it goes south.

He is also the one that prints out the nice, specific, vac schedules and things.

 

[simme]

Why would it be a bad look? It's actually called surgical dehorning.

Is taking loppers, or saws, or the dehorning tool a better look, with no anesthesia, and letting the blood fly as you take a chunk?

Dehorning removes the horn and eliminate the animal from using horns to fight with or injure/bruise another animal. A little lidocaine around the base, clipping the hair and a set of Barnes dehorners will do a good job if the person is careful to get a small amount of skin all around the horn. Get the horn all the way down to the horn socket.

Many people might make the cut too high and leave some horn tissue that will grow. Not attractive but still serves the economic purpose of dehorning. Best to use forceps to pull the bleeders or a hot iron to stop the bleeding. Mostly pain free with lidocaine. Done very early, the animal will appear polled. Done late, the animal will appear dehorned.

Surgical dehorning involves cutting the skin, peeling it back and working on the skull to shape it for cosmetic reasons. Way beyond what is needed to remove the ability of an animal to use horns as a weapon. Then sew it all back up. The bad look is not on the cow, but on the people that do it. It can give bad impression of the show ring and the cow business. Dehorning is for economics. Shaping the skull is not. Then there are things beyond that. Show ring might dye hair, "air up" under the skin to fill in low spots, use illegal drugs to promote gains and feed intake. Force/pump water into the animal just prior to the show to appear more full bodied. I remember being told about giving a particular drug and increasing the dosage until the animal starts having seizures. Then back off a little and maintain that level. That is all a bad look to that side of the cattle business, IMO. Big money in the highest level of the show world and some very unethical people. Just my opinion.

 

[Brute 23]

Dehorning removes the horn and eliminate the animal from using horns to fight with or injure/bruise another animal. A little lidocaine around the base, clipping the hair and a set of Barnes dehorners will do a good job if the person is careful to get a small amount of skin all around the horn. Get the horn all the way down to the horn socket.

Many people might make the cut too high and leave some horn tissue that will grow. Not attractive but still serves the economic purpose of dehorning. Best to use forceps to pull the bleeders or a hot iron to stop the bleeding. Mostly pain free with lidocaine. Done very early, the animal will appear polled. Done late, the animal will appear dehorned.

Surgical dehorning involves cutting the skin, peeling it back and working on the skull to shape it for cosmetic reasons. Way beyond what is needed to remove the ability of an animal to use horns as a weapon. Then sew it all back up. The bad look is not on the cow, but on the people that do it. It can give bad impression of the show ring and the cow business. Dehorning is for economics. Shaping the skull is not. Then there are things beyond that. Show ring might dye hair, "air up" under the skin to fill in low spots, use illegal drugs to promote gains and feed intake. Force/pump water into the animal just prior to the show to appear more full bodied. I remember being told about giving a particular drug and increasing the dosage until the animal starts having seizures. Then back off a little and maintain that level. That is all a bad look to that side of the cattle business, IMO. Big money in the highest level of the show world and some very unethical people. Just my opinion.

The show ring deal is a complete seperate issue and surgical dh is the least of their problems.

I think if you showed the general public a video surgical vs traditional dh, they will likely say the surgical is more ethical. The scalp shaping is part of the show ring deal.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I already knew about "cosmetic dehorning". Way more than just dehorning. Sort of not a good image for the industry, I think. As far as "negative", it seems to me that most should find cosmetic dehorning much more negative than just using a polled animal for show. Really, the show thing is pretty far removed from the mainstream cattle industry. It promotes some traits that have no economic value, some that have negative economic value.

Reshaping the skull for a show - that's just extreme. Maybe like extreme cosmetic surgery for people.

You're right; the show ring isn't even in the same realm as the real world.
A guy I know raises club calves. He has around forty cows dedicated to it. He said that if he doesn't have to pull a calf with a jack he knows it won't have enough bone to compete in the show ring.

 

[M.Magis]

I already knew about "cosmetic dehorning". Way more than just dehorning. Sort of not a good image for the industry, I think. As far as "negative", it seems to me that most should find cosmetic dehorning much more negative than just using a polled animal for show. Really, the show thing is pretty far removed from the mainstream cattle industry. It promotes some traits that have no economic value, some that have negative economic value.

Reshaping the skull for a show - that's just extreme. Maybe like extreme cosmetic surgery for people.

I think you mean no commercial value. Those traits absolutely have economic value. People make their living with show cattle, just like people make their living with commercial cattle. Just because we don't understand something doesn't make it less real or valuable.

 

[simme]

I think you mean no commercial value. Those traits absolutely have economic value. People make their living with show cattle, just like people make their living with commercial cattle. Just because we don't understand something doesn't make it less real or valuable.

Yes, no commercial economic value to the vast majority of the people who produce beef for consumption. I have no issue with showing cattle. My kids participated in their junior breed association and local cattle shows. Great hobby for family and for personal growth. But at some level of activities, an ethical line can be crossed. Administration of illegal drugs (Clenbuterol) certainly. "Airing" a calf has resulted in disciplinary actions in the past. Pumping them is against the rules in most shows.

Showing a calf (or pig or lamb) can be a great education for a child. Learning responsibility, how to care for stock, feedstuff, meeting people and making friends and all that. Everyone has their own ethics. But for some activities in the show world, parents may not be setting a good example. Cheating and illegal activities fall in that category for me. Cosmetic dehorning - each person can decide for themselves. Paying $30,000 or more for a show calf - certainly everyone has the right to do that. Does that effectively teach money management to the kids? Maybe for the ones that make a profit on them. But probably not the majority. The very small percentage of people who cross the line set an attraction to that behavior, especially if they are viewed as "successful". A few can make a big impact.

At some point, it becomes more about parenting than about showing. I do believe that the most contribution we can make as parents is to teach our kids and set an example. Skills for a good life. More so than how to feed, clip and show a calf. Just my opinions and viewpoints.

 

[Brute 23]

I know people who have done surgical dehorn on breeding cows. Guy was selling a small group of Brahman heifers and doesn't mind the horns. Buyer didn't want horns so he had them all removed.

 

[SBMF 2015]

But at some level of activities, an ethical line can be crossed.

At the junior level of our local county fair. They have a fall hfr class. My friend's daughter showed her December young hfr against a "September" ( really June) hfr . The September was like 600lbs heavier.
The cheating starts at the lowest level. And is so bad that anyone who plays by the rules will be last in the class. Pretty tough lesson for little kids to take. It's a crying shame.
I think all these county level shows should be showmanship classes only. Pretty hard to cheat against hard work.

 

[Brute 23]

At the junior level of our local county fair. They have a fall hfr class. My friend's daughter showed her December young hfr against a "September" ( really June) hfr . The September was like 600lbs heavier.
The cheating starts at the lowest level. And is so bad that anyone who plays by the rules will be last in the class. Pretty tough lesson for little kids to take. It's a crying shame.
I think all these county level shows should be showmanship classes only. Pretty hard to cheat against hard work.

That will never happen because the moms and dads of the kids doing that stuff are on the boards for those fairs making the rules. Those kids didn't learn to do that stuff on their own.

I was sick after getting my son involved in commercial heifers. We saw the same the same thing. Parents on the board, with kids showing, trying to get other kids disqualified for piddly stuff like a tag falling out in the trailer on the way to the show.

As I went through the process I watched who's kids worked and did right and who's patents helped the other kids vs who's parents tried to cut the other kids throats.

There was a little girl busting her butt. She was cute as can be and sharp. She didn't know I was a parent and came up and gave me her speech with a card showing her animals asking if I would bid. About half way through he parents came over because they knew who I was and tried to stop her. I told her... you are very smart and keep hustling. In about 5min some people are going to come talk to us and they will be dressed like it's the Kentucky Derby. As soon as they finish with my son be stand her and tell them exactly what you told me.

A few minutes later the people came through and she looked over and saw them. She came scooting over and waited patiently. I just kind fo smiled at her to acknowledge her. As it started wrapping up I told my boss's daughter, this young lady also has some heifers in the auction this year. They all turned and she layed it on them.

I had 3 groups of people I worked with, over a billion dollars in net worth, at a table at our county show. We went down the list and ran up as many of the hard working kids as I knew.

The was so much ugly in that deal. I still have very mixed feeling about it being worth it or not.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I had 3 groups of people I worked with, over a billion dollars in net worth, at a table at our county show. We went down the list and ran up as

One of our local county 4H sales has a group of seed stock producers who represent at least 2 or more species. They bid on any steer, barrow, or wether not bringing the average of the sale.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

My vet once told me he had been asked to inject silicone into show dairy cow udders.

 

[alacowman1]

I'm just fine. We are lucky to have a vet by phone to get us meds. Didn't realize people did cosmetic surgery on cows. Things are so "hollywood" out there in the big cities.

It's Been around for awhile

 

[Brute 23]

One of our local county 4H sales has a group of seed stock producers who represent at least 2 or more species. They bid on any steer, barrow, or wether not bringing the average of the sale.

That's nice