Hooks and Pins

[El_Putzo]

I have been looking a lots of cattle lately trying to figure out what bloodlines I like and so on and so forth. In the 5 or so months I've been watching this board I've heard several people make reference to "Pins and Hooks". I understand that pins and hooks are the bones located in the hip and pelvic area, but what does a person look for in a good set of pins and hooks? I've been helping my dad pick which heifers we've saved the last 10 or 15 yrs, and we always looked at things like top line, bottom line, udder quality of dam, feet, legs, temperament, muscle and capacity. I always thought a fairly wide set of hips makes for an easier calving cow, is this correct?

TIA,

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Decided to pull out of this topic discussion...

 

[dun]

El_Putzo, this may look familiar!
I'm posting it so others can have something to argue about.

The hooks are the hip bones and usaully denotes a whide pelvis, maybe not the size of the pelvic opening but at least the pelvis itself. The pins are those two bones just below the tail. If the angle between the hooks and pins is steep it seems like there more prone to leg and hip problems. Too flat of an angle or a high tailhead, significantly above the top line, leads to reproduction and calving problems. I like a decent length between the hooks and pins also. It lengthens the birth canal and can make them be nice to AI, but my old mentor alwasy harped on length but didn;t say why. I guess it was just based on 75 years experience with Holsteins. He's been right about everything else and even the Holstein people are now starting to come back to the basics that he alwasy talked about and selected for. I figure if it worked for him it darn sure should work for me.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Bill, or anyone else

I'd still like to hear your comments, like I said I'm trying to learn more about some of the physical terminology that I see on this board sometimes.

Thanks,

 

[bwranch]

The tail set is something we gauge by and have always felt like it related to reproductive problems but I have never heard anybody else mention it specifically before. On the H&P question, I've seen a number of cows this year at the sales with a relatively high butt, to the point where they look like they're standing downhill on level ground. I guess a better way to describe it is the front legs are disproportionately short compared to the rear. Seem to see it a lot in show cows too. It gives an odd angle to the hips/butt. Is this related to what you're talking about or am I on a different track entirely?

 

[preston39]

dun,

Excellent post on ....hooks and pins.

Just a comment on a ....high tail head. Over the years I have noticed folks who have a problem with calving often the cow had a high tail head. By no means should that be interpreted that only ..high tails heads... have a problem.

Interesting.