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homozygous polled hereford bulls?

herfdog

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I bought a registered polled hereford cow this spring and she had a heifer calf. I thought she was scurred at three months old because they wiggled but they kept growing and they are 21/2" horn know. So I went to herfnet to look to see if I could find were the horns came from in her pedigree BRL CALL 100L & NJW 1Y WRANGLER 19D both have horned progeny. So I started searching several popular AI sires and I could not find any that did not have horned progeny. Who are the homozygous polled hereford bulls? Should'nt there be homo polled bulls out there that have zero horned progeny?
reg # on heifer if anyone would care to look 42932330 I would post the link but dont know how to.
 

Aaron

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WS APPROVAL 621 is the source of the scurs in BR CALL.

L1 PACESETTER is the source of the scurs in Wrangler.


I think MSU OPTIMUM Z03 is a homozygous polled bull. We used him a lot and never had horns or scurs.

Some of the Felton's bulls are also ones that are homo polled. :cowboy:
 

HerefordSire

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herfdog":3h5988qy said:
I bought a registered polled hereford cow this spring and she had a heifer calf. I thought she was scurred at three months old because they wiggled but they kept growing and they are 21/2" horn know. So I went to herfnet to look to see if I could find were the horns came from in her pedigree BRL CALL 100L & NJW 1Y WRANGLER 19D both have horned progeny. So I started searching several popular AI sires and I could not find any that did not have horned progeny. Who are the homozygous polled hereford bulls? Should'nt there be homo polled bulls out there that have zero horned progeny?
reg # on heifer if anyone would care to look 42932330 I would post the link but dont know how to.

I am probably mistaken, so anyone that knows feel free to correct me....

I am under the impression the only way to know, with at least a 99% confidence level if a Hereford is homozygous polled, other than DNA testing, is to go back to the orginal branch of the mutant polled Hereford(s). Just a guess, but this is probably why this or these animals are not listed in the AHA database. If this information was there, I think I could figure it out programatically by using a simple formula.
 

Herefords.US

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HerefordSire":36n1bkqk said:
herfdog":36n1bkqk said:
I bought a registered polled hereford cow this spring and she had a heifer calf. I thought she was scurred at three months old because they wiggled but they kept growing and they are 21/2" horn know. So I went to herfnet to look to see if I could find were the horns came from in her pedigree BRL CALL 100L & NJW 1Y WRANGLER 19D both have horned progeny. So I started searching several popular AI sires and I could not find any that did not have horned progeny. Who are the homozygous polled hereford bulls? Should'nt there be homo polled bulls out there that have zero horned progeny?
reg # on heifer if anyone would care to look 42932330 I would post the link but dont know how to.

I am probably mistaken, so anyone that knows feel free to correct me....

I am under the impression the only way to know, with at least a 99% confidence level if a Hereford is homozygous polled, other than DNA testing, is to go back to the orginal branch of the mutant polled Hereford(s). Just a guess, but this is probably why this or these animals are not listed in the AHA database. If this information was there, I think I could figure it out programatically by using a simple formula.

If you mate a polled bull to a dozen or more horned cows - and you don't get any horned calves as a result -the probabilty is really high(virtually 100% accuracy) that the bull is homozygous polled.

And I've already told you why many of the animals with birthdates pre-1960 weren't in the AHA online database. Speculate all you want, but the reality isn't nearly as sinister as where your non-trusting mindset continually takes your thoughts.

George
 

HerefordSire

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Herefords.US":vltgp8ox said:
HerefordSire":vltgp8ox said:
herfdog":vltgp8ox said:
I bought a registered polled hereford cow this spring and she had a heifer calf. I thought she was scurred at three months old because they wiggled but they kept growing and they are 21/2" horn know. So I went to herfnet to look to see if I could find were the horns came from in her pedigree BRL CALL 100L & NJW 1Y WRANGLER 19D both have horned progeny. So I started searching several popular AI sires and I could not find any that did not have horned progeny. Who are the homozygous polled hereford bulls? Should'nt there be homo polled bulls out there that have zero horned progeny?
reg # on heifer if anyone would care to look 42932330 I would post the link but dont know how to.

I am probably mistaken, so anyone that knows feel free to correct me....

I am under the impression the only way to know, with at least a 99% confidence level if a Hereford is homozygous polled, other than DNA testing, is to go back to the orginal branch of the mutant polled Hereford(s). Just a guess, but this is probably why this or these animals are not listed in the AHA database. If this information was there, I think I could figure it out programatically by using a simple formula.

If you mate a polled bull to a dozen or more horned cows - and you don't get any horned calves as a result -the probabilty is really high(virtually 100% accuracy) that the bull is homozygous polled.

And I've already told you why many of the animals with birthdates pre-1960 weren't in the AHA online database. Speculate all you want, but the reality isn't nearly as sinister as where your non-trusting mindset continually takes your thoughts.

George

Without DNA testing or going out and buying horned cows, is there another way?
 

KNERSIE

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Have the bull collected and donate the semen to commercial horned herds with the agreement to collect data from the calves.
 

HerefordSire

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Would this be a valid way?

Run a query in the AHA for progeny of a polled bull. If there are any registered progeny not containing a 'P' in their registration number, then the bull is not homozygous polled. If all return progeny carry the 'P', then at least 10 cows used to produce the bull's progeny, must be inspected to also not contain the 'P' in the registration number.
 

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":1fidawc2 said:
Would this be a valid way?

Run a query in the AHA for progeny of a polled bull. If there are any registered progeny not containing a 'P' in their registration number, then the bull is not homozygous polled. If all return progeny carry the 'P', then at least 10 cows used to produce the bull's progeny, must be inspected to also not contain the 'P' in the registration number.

It would be a start, but it wouldn't rule out the possibility of a horned calf that wasn't registered.
 

dun

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herfdog":3meoertx said:
I bought a registered polled hereford cow this spring and she had a heifer calf. I thought she was scurred at three months old because they wiggled but they kept growing and they are 21/2" horn know.
If they wiggled they were scurs. The horn bud is in the skull and doens;t move. Sometimes a scur will end up attaching to the skull and have the impression of being a horn but it's still a scur
 

HerefordSire

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KNERSIE":mvzlj6ib said:
HerefordSire":mvzlj6ib said:
Would this be a valid way?

Run a query in the AHA for progeny of a polled bull. If there are any registered progeny not containing a 'P' in their registration number, then the bull is not homozygous polled. If all return progeny carry the 'P', then at least 10 cows used to produce the bull's progeny, must be inspected to also not contain the 'P' in the registration number.

It would be a start, but it wouldn't rule out the possibility of a horned calf that wasn't registered.


Excellent point! If the bull was a registered AI polled bull, the DNA would have to already be on record. I do not think it is required to provide information as to whether the the bull is homozygous polled. If the owner chooses to publish homozygous polled results, after requesting additional homozygous polled testing be done during the DNA filing process, I would think it may increase the value of the bull, if the bull tested positive for being homozygous polled. Does this sound reasonable?
 

herfdog

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thanks for all your replies.
bull # of horned calves in registery # of registered progeny entries
Feltons legend 242 30 1500+
Sch-lar 5n of 9l3008 23 268
boyd first class 6040 1 78
cs boomer 29f 255 1500+
remitall online 122l 43 1500+
rjh new dimension 38 714
boyd cow maker 22 473
brl call 100l 57 879
h 8e embracer 8e 68 865
remitall embracer 8e 86 1419
njw 1y wrangler 19d 248 1500+
dr world class 7 1222
br dm channing et 184 786
br moler et 216 1382
kcf bennett 3008 m326 185 1267
These are all the bulls I looked up
I guess I was shocked that all these bulls had horned progeny. I figured some would be homozygous polled and not have any hornrd progeny.
So are they all heterozygous bulls?
 

herfdog

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Well the post didnt work like i originally wrote it
the first number is horned progeny in the registery for the bull
the second number is number of registered progeny for the bull
 

JHH

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herfdog":3jcrzj0p said:
thanks for all your replies.
bull # of horned calves in registery # of registered progeny entries
Feltons legend 242 30 1500+
Sch-lar 5n of 9l3008 23 268
boyd first class 6040 1 78
cs boomer 29f 255 1500+
remitall online 122l 43 1500+
rjh new dimension 38 714
boyd cow maker 22 473
brl call 100l 57 879
h 8e embracer 8e 68 865
remitall embracer 8e 86 1419
njw 1y wrangler 19d 248 1500+
dr world class 7 1222
br dm channing et 184 786
br moler et 216 1382
kcf bennett 3008 m326 185 1267
These are all the bulls I looked up
I guess I was shocked that all these bulls had horned progeny. I figured some would be homozygous polled and not have any hornrd progeny.
So are they all heterozygous bulls?

This is what I kind of posted on another thread. Most ( not all) polled bulls have horned ancesters in the pedigree. So the chance of horned calves is there.
 

CosgrayHerefords

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BR Moler ET and BR DM Channing ET are from a horned cow so they are not homozygous.

CS Boomer 29F is actually a horned bull even though both his dam and sire are polled.
 

herfdog

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HerefordSire":2g4g3ytm said:
Try this one:

SHF RADAR M326 R125

The first number should show up as a zero.

I searched this bull and found 3 horned progeny out of 487 registered
 

HerefordSire

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herfdog":1yeb9aq4 said:
HerefordSire":1yeb9aq4 said:
Try this one:

SHF RADAR M326 R125

The first number should show up as a zero.

I searched this bull and found 3 horned progeny out of 487 registered


Based upon a couple of reputable websites I went to, they each wrote he was homozygous which may mean he was DNA tested. I believe the three entries returned to you showing to be horned are likely the result of one of three occurences:

(1) A data entry error
(2) Horny bull jumped fence :mrgreen:
(3) Misinterpretation of horns (scurs)
 

HerefordSire

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Red Bull Breeder":3u4hsbtx said:
Surely can't be any more expensive to DNA test a herford than it is a Limi.

$32 is what I paid, I think, per head. Probably extra for special tests, but don't know. It appears herfdog's is scurred.
 

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